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Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

hilarymason.com

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Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#71

Post by cclark20 »

cbsmith wrote: post #35

It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…

In the screenshot the ad blends into the rest of the UI instead of being clear that its an ad...And its prominent placement in the UI makes it very clickable. Following your logic shouldn't it remain in the same place but be more clear that its an ad so that people are not confused that its part of the product? This would have the result of being seen but not accidentally clicked.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#72

Post by webwright »

zacharycohn wrote: post #24
webwright wrote: post #8

Things get tense when ad-supported companies have to make money. When I ask my mom or dad to click the first Google search result, they click on an ad. When I ask them if they realized that it was an ad, the response is "no". A good portion of the ad business is confused clicks/taps (it's worse on mobile).

If that ad brings them to what they were looking for... does it matter?

It seems pretty unlikely that the highest bid ad is as good as the #1 organic search result for the same click. As advertisers get more savvy, these ads generally go to landing pages (limited navigation, tight funnel). In the rare case that the #1 ad is better than the #1 organic result, you're right-- it doesn't matter. The other 99% of the time, it does.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#73

Post by Dylan16807 »

mistercow wrote: post #23

Can someone explain to me what the appeal is of tap-to-click on trackpads? It's obviously terrible for usability for anyone with less-than-perfect motor control, but even for someone with ordinary dexterity like myself, it can be infuriating. I don't want to have to tread lightly around my trackpad just to keep from accidentally clicking on stuff. And it's not just me; I watch other people use laptops, and their usag…

Keeping my thumb on the buttons means that I have to curl up my index finger into a less natural position. Much easier to just tap. Also in certain environments the clicking noise is a bother.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#74

Post by yen223 »

dllthomas wrote: post #64
mike_esspe wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I never have this problem with touchpad, did you change the sensitivity threshold? Have you tried touchpad from another brand?

I think you're the odd one; I've had this problem and witnessed others having it, on most computers I've encountered with the feature. I have tap-to-click disabled on my laptop for precisely that reason.

He's not the odd one. I did not experience any issues whatsoever with tapping on my trackpad. Not even with two-finger tapping for right clicks.

Then again, I'm using a Macbook Air, which has a highly-rated trackpad.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#76

Post by nullsub »

cbsmith wrote: post #35

It's unfortunate that the person who wrote this article didn't consult with someone more informed about the online advertising world. As someone who has been in the belly of the beast, I'm going to try to summarize the various ways that this article is getting it wrong. * Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks.…

"Most Yahoo Mail ads generate revenue based on impressions, not clicks. So Yahoo isn't directly making more money by grabbing these "random" clicks"

perhaps not, but surely if I was to buy such an ad and pay per impression, I'd probably like to know what the impression/click ratio was. no doubt Yahoo advertises a low one to potential buyers...

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#77

Post by mistercow »

mike_esspe wrote: post #54
mistercow wrote: post #23

Can someone explain to me what the appeal is of tap-to-click on trackpads? It's obviously terrible for usability for anyone with less-than-perfect motor control, but even for someone with ordinary dexterity like myself, it can be infuriating. I don't want to have to tread lightly around my trackpad just to keep from accidentally clicking on stuff. And it's not just me; I watch other people use laptops, and their usag…

I never have this problem with touchpad, did you change the sensitivity threshold? Have you tried touchpad from another brand?

I am not referring to a single bad experience with a single laptop. I am talking about every laptop I have ever used, regardless of settings, that had this feature enabled.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#78

Post by dherman »

batista wrote: post #44
mattj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a very non-trivial chance the person who wrote this article knows much more about advertising than you think: http://www.hilarymason.com/about/

Really? Because nothing in that bio points to that. Actually the whole thing is unbelievably vague and opaque. And these kind of cutesy oneliner descriptions of one's skills make me cringe: "Simply: I make beautiful things with data". OK, she works as a "chief scientist" (that's not even a job, for us, old time folks, but anyway) at bitly (a URL shortening service, i.e as far away from a real business as you can get,…

[Disclaimer: I have decades of first-hand knowledge of Hilary's awesomeness, going back to when we were CS students together in college. So yeah, I'm defending my friend.]

I'd like to ask you to think twice before publicly questioning someone's credentials like this. Whatever your intentions, picking on someone's CV just because of a blog post you disagree with is not only rude, but it sends a message -- particularly to women in tech -- that if they speak publicly, if they offer up their opinion, they will be attacked not about the content of their point but about their competence to speak at all. I believe this kind of attack has real consequences on our field, and I would urge everyone to show everyone the respect they'd want for themselves.

Dave

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#79

Post by bootload »

levesque wrote: post #39
mattj wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think there's a very non-trivial chance the person who wrote this article knows much more about advertising than you think: http://www.hilarymason.com/about/

She's a data geek. How does that make her an expert about advertising?

"... She's a data geek ..."

'She' has a name, Hilary Mason or @hmason.

Re: Hey Yahoo, You’re Optimizing the Wrong Thing

#80

Post by bo1024 »

recoiledsnake wrote: post #16
webwright wrote: post #8

Things get tense when ad-supported companies have to make money. When I ask my mom or dad to click the first Google search result, they click on an ad. When I ask them if they realized that it was an ad, the response is "no". A good portion of the ad business is confused clicks/taps (it's worse on mobile).

Google and other ads are specifically designed to look like search results and exploit the fact that older people cannot see contrast of the background as well as younger people. The contrast on the background is much lower than the federal 508 standard for contrast and I think has changed to over the years to a lighter shade as Google "optimizes" it. http://i.imgur.com/Wmdd0.png One is an ad and one is a search resu…

As has been mentioned in other posts above, it seems doubtful that ad companies (at least large ones) want these ads to be deliberately misleading.

If you click on an ad that isn't relevant to you, there are three major harms caused. One, your time is wasted closing it and going back. Two, the advertiser may have to pay extra for a useless click. Three, Google (for instance) has to consider the likelihood that this is a useless or fradulent click, and possibly reimburse the advertiser if so.[1]

All of these are bad for Google (for example). The offset gained by a few dollars in revenue is probably not going to counter that, because what they really want is users to continue using their search engine and they want advertisers to be happy with the clicks they pay for. Those are really important for them to keep. Tricking you into clicking useless links is bad, bad, bad. (Adwords hosted on someone's website is another story; that person might not feel the same way.)

But if, on the other hand, the ad actually is relevant to you, then it's great for all three parties if you click it. So I'd hesitate to attribute these UI choices to trying to fool people.

Disclaimer: I can't remember the last time I clicked on an ad anywhere on the internet, except by accident. But that doesn't happen to me on Google or other reputable advertising-based sites.

[1] see e.g. http://support.google.com/adwords/bin/answer.py?hl=en&an...

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