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EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

washingtonpost.com

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Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#131
post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

While I agree minorities are going to feel the brunt of climate change I’m not sure in modern political contexts the motivation is racial. There’s deep, growing resentment towards the entire so-called “Professional Managerial Class” - things like wind and solar power are a byproduct of their accomplishments. To kill these things off is a way to stick their finger in the eyes of undesirables; the fact that the externa…

It doesn't have to be explicitly racist. https://www.thenation.com/article/archive/exclusive-lee-atwa...

Lee Atwater would be proud. It started with Reagan and is used with exceptional effectiveness by the current Republican Party.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

One of the worst instances of this was when the government lawyers essentially replied "We thought only the written orders count" when asked why they didn't comply. I'm not a lawyer, but from the reactions of actual lawyers this is not how it works in court, at all.

Cato - one of the few actually principled right-leaning think tanks have written extensively about this (and other instances of Trump administration contempt). It’s just as bad as you’ve described and infuriating for anyone who actually values the rule of law. https://www.cato.org/commentary/carousel-contempt

Courts rarely punish agencies for contempt and trust erodes, but shame no longer works and two cases aren’t proof of a systemic collapse.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#133

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a bad idea. Let's start off with the first point "They are just easements on private property" That's what most public roads are. They are still owned by the public (the government) and maintained by the public (the government). Where I'm from, we have plenty of dirt and gravel roads just like this. Once every 10 years or so the county comes in and re-gravels them. They are mostly only ever used by private in…

Honestly I will just thank my lucky stars most people believe this fiction you present, because it's keeping the more libertarian areas cheap and without too many busybodies. It seems you've not heard of public access private easements or private trash service, and you haven't learned how to shoot a bear. I pay like $50/month in property taxes and that's basically exclusively for public school and college, which whil…

I would really like to see private medical system problem solved in USA.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#134

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Government is just organized volunteering. You’re describing a government. You created your own mini government for your road maintenance.

If I (willingly) don't pay my taxes someone will put me in a tiny cage, violently ("tax evasion"). If I don't fix my road, I just can't go anywhere, which obviously forces me to voluntarily fix it. If I don't voluntarily fix it, I'm stuck until someone comes along with a backhoe, and given only the tiniest % of people will purposefully sabotage their ability to go buy groceries, the burden of having to fix a neighbor…

So how the tragedy of commons problem is solved?

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#135

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kind of, but also, I've been watching my mainstream liberal friends update their beliefs about stuff, while conservatives still seem stuck. Certainly the point of being "progressive" is about being open to new ideas, and they don't entirely fail at their title. At least in America at the moment, I think the conservatives have it worse.

I think this has happened at times to all groups as well. Right now the conservatives are 'stuck' at least partially because of the cognitive dissonance required to elect and support the current admin. I think people on the left arguably did the same with various social justice initiatives. Things got crazier by the month for a while until people were genuinely afraid to speak, people were being cancelled for dubious…

Yeah, but part of what I'm seeing is exactly the left pulling their heads out of that mess, while the right is only digging in deeper, both on similar time scales.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#136
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because the right is trying to dismantle all those things

I suspect it's a minority of people on the right, and frankly, I've known people on the left (in Canada, at least) who antagonize science and various institutions for no other reason than gut feelings. People on extreme ends of political spectrums are problematic, period. They've always been present, but the Internet amplifies their mania to all of us like never before

Yes, extremes are problematic - marxism as left-left or fascism as right-right. At the moment though USA surely has a problem with the latter.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#137
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Somehow when the county maintains them, the "virtually free" roads somehow become enormously expensive. You can see the government having a monopoly and captive buyer causes them to be horribly inefficient, as they have no competition (and no private competitor will emerge when the price at point of use by their competitor is zero).

Are you questioning the idea of having goverments to solve tragedy of commons problem?

I don't believe you can 'solve' the tragedy of the commons by increasing the size of the commons. Public government is a tragedy of the commons and shrinking it as close to, if not to the size zero, would reduce not increase the tragedy of the commons.

I'm not opposed to say, privatizing many functions of government so that they are no longer commons. I feel this would solve that problem better than making the commons larger.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think this has happened at times to all groups as well. Right now the conservatives are 'stuck' at least partially because of the cognitive dissonance required to elect and support the current admin. I think people on the left arguably did the same with various social justice initiatives. Things got crazier by the month for a while until people were genuinely afraid to speak, people were being cancelled for dubious…

Yeah, but part of what I'm seeing is exactly the left pulling their heads out of that mess, while the right is only digging in deeper, both on similar time scales.

Interesting point. I've generally intuited that the left would have carried on down that road were they to win the last election, but I could be wrong. And there has been a bit of a recoil from that kind of behaviour, so you're right about that.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even if they paid private enterprises and didn't donate, they could recreate much of government functions, this time not under a monopoly with a captive buyer. I presume many people would want many of those services even if they chose to buy rather than donate them.

You tried that with healthcare. Turns out lots of people want to buy it, it just costs a large multiple of what everyone else in the world pay because actually a bunch of private sector middlemen doing the same adminstrative roles the government does isn't automatically more efficient.

We did not try eliminating government from healthcare. In fact many of the high cost of private payments arise from regulation or a tragedy of the commons situation introduced by government (i.e. ER required to take everyone but with no answer how to pay).

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cato - one of the few actually principled right-leaning think tanks have written extensively about this (and other instances of Trump administration contempt). It’s just as bad as you’ve described and infuriating for anyone who actually values the rule of law. https://www.cato.org/commentary/carousel-contempt

Courts rarely punish agencies for contempt and trust erodes, but shame no longer works and two cases aren’t proof of a systemic collapse.

Those ‘two cases’ were from the first months of this term - needless to say there have been many further cases since then. And more to the ‘systemic collapse’ point, Appeals Courts staffed by Trump-appointed flunkies are gutting the contempt proceedings and the Supreme Court is refusing to step in..

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/rcna223873

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