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EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

washingtonpost.com

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Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#31

Post by Herring »

throw0101c wrote: post #24
Herring wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

> Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Some folks would rather literally die than have the 'wrong people' have an improvement in their lives: * https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dying_of_Whiteness Do not under-estimate the power of spite/hate.

100%. One of the key reasons the US didn't get universal healthcare in the Social Security Act of 1935(!) was because FDR relied on Southern Democrats who thought it was a threat to segregation. So yes they will definitely die for it. If we want to build a better social fabric, we have to deal with racism there's no other way.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#32

Post by spamizbad »

Herring wrote: post #20
goku12 wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unbu…

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

While I agree minorities are going to feel the brunt of climate change I’m not sure in modern political contexts the motivation is racial.

There’s deep, growing resentment towards the entire so-called “Professional Managerial Class” - things like wind and solar power are a byproduct of their accomplishments. To kill these things off is a way to stick their finger in the eyes of undesirables; the fact that the externalities of this vengeful decision will mostly be felt by minorities is merely a convenient coincidence for the perpetrators

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#33

Post by ImPostingOnHN »

firesteelrain wrote: post #25
ImPostingOnHN wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe, but whistleblower reports are solid evidence on their own, multiple corroborating witness statements even moreso. That's even if they aren't going up against the administration most infamous for lying and censorship, which obviously strengthens the whistleblowers' cases. For an administration which claims that their primary goals are removing dysfunction and bureaucracy, and making the government more efficien…

Fair enough, I see where you’re coming from. Personally I’d want to see documents or journal confirmations before calling it outright censorship, but I agree the political track record makes it hard to dismiss the reports.

Indeed, totally losing the benefit of the doubt when it comes to matters of censorship and lying, is one consequences of being the administration historically most infamous for censorship and lying. Normally that is motivation enough for people to choose not to become infamous for censorship and lying.

If any evidentiary memos or documents are due, they are due from the administration (with credible independent verification, of course), since at the moment the whistleblowers are more credible based on their assertions alone, and so their claim currently prevails.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#34

Post by gWPVhyxPHqvk »

johnebgd wrote: post #29
softwaredoug wrote: post #28

It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather d…

Great idea. Who pays for it?

We could all band together and have another dedicated group collect money for it. It wouldn't be optional, either, because we mostly all agree it's valuable. Of course, there would have to be yet another group that sets how much money to collect, and how to spend it.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#35

Post by softwaredoug »

johnebgd wrote: post #29
softwaredoug wrote: post #28

It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather d…

Great idea. Who pays for it?

I suspect we'll end up with a patchwork: From activist private organizations / charities. To state gov'ts in blue states. To just private industry (given how solar is now the least expensive energy source). To just private citizens who would prefer to work for less money on something valuable than squeeze a tiny bit more profit as a corporate cog.

Ideally the Federal gov't gets back into play, but we shouldn't plan for that future. It's a nice to have, but its a single point of failure. Especially if the Supreme Court doesn't believe in the independence of agencies anymore.

As an example, the American Academy of Pediatrics now has their own vaccine schedule, which they didn't have before. Nobody in their right mind trusts the CDC / FDA on this right now.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#36

Post by Forgeties79 »

spamizbad wrote: post #32
Herring wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

While I agree minorities are going to feel the brunt of climate change I’m not sure in modern political contexts the motivation is racial. There’s deep, growing resentment towards the entire so-called “Professional Managerial Class” - things like wind and solar power are a byproduct of their accomplishments. To kill these things off is a way to stick their finger in the eyes of undesirables; the fact that the externa…

You have to remember we live in a nation that poured cement into public pools across the country just so they wouldn’t have to share them with black Americans.

I don’t think people realize how many private schools exist purely because of reintegration. People decided they would rather build new schools and pay private tuition on top of the taxes they pay for public education. Again, all of this was just so they wouldn’t have to share those schools with black Americans.

This is all recent history. Many of the people who did this are still alive.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#37

Post by dmd »

gWPVhyxPHqvk wrote: post #34
johnebgd wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Great idea. Who pays for it?

We could all band together and have another dedicated group collect money for it. It wouldn't be optional, either, because we mostly all agree it's valuable. Of course, there would have to be yet another group that sets how much money to collect, and how to spend it.

Oooh I love this idea. We could have some sort of process where everyone gets a say in deciding how the money is spent. Except maybe rather than everyone doing that you could have instead people whose job it is to do it, and everyone gets a say in deciding who those people are.

I wonder if this sort of thing has ever been tried.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#38

Post by notmyjob »

johnebgd wrote: post #29
softwaredoug wrote: post #28

It feels like in the US we need collective, civic organizations independent of the Federal government. I would like to see the Democratic party and other left-leaning / governance institutions / activists on specific issues work to make priorities resilient of the government. Especially since working on many of these issues is popular and not particularly partisan. And many people in upper-middle class would rather d…

Great idea. Who pays for it?

California is what, the world’s sixth largest economy? But we (our political leadership broadly speaking) seem quite inept despite their abundant resources. Gotta to spend dollars on campaigning and gerrymandering instead, or you know losing 50 billion here and there to EDD fraud, or on high speed rail from Visalia to Modesto.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#39

Post by Herring »

spamizbad wrote: post #32
Herring wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Study your history. Hurting yourself to hurt others is a well-established political practice in America. Climate issues hit the marginalized much harder than whites. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Diversity_in_swimming

While I agree minorities are going to feel the brunt of climate change I’m not sure in modern political contexts the motivation is racial. There’s deep, growing resentment towards the entire so-called “Professional Managerial Class” - things like wind and solar power are a byproduct of their accomplishments. To kill these things off is a way to stick their finger in the eyes of undesirables; the fact that the externa…

This is unfortunately easy to disprove. Find your nearest republican and ask them whether they think climate change is "woke". Anything progressive comes up against cultural and racial resentments.

Re: EPA tells some scientists to stop publishing studies

#40

Post by layer8 »

goku12 wrote: post #18
fabian2k wrote: post #8

I mean it's entirely obvious from everything that this administration does that it fundamentally opposes the entire purpose of the EPA. They want people to think climate change is a hoax, and environmental regulations are in the way of earning money. Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good.

> Wind power is bad, and "clean coal" is good. Can somebody explain the psychology behind these beliefs? I'm pretty sure they know how coal is mined. They must surely have heard about the black lung disease and COPD. Where does this 'clean coal' concept come from? And if that's about the products of coal burning, is it too hard to imagine breathing in hot air containing soot, fly ash, some obnoxious oxides, some unbu…

It stands in the way of them making money, and making (lots of) money is psychologically fundamental to their identity, to them feeling superior, maybe because they don’t have much else to show for, or more charitably because they haven’t been taught more healthy values as children. Anything that limits their ability to make money is hard for them to reconcile with their self-image. It’s much easier to play down, distort, or outright ignore other parts of reality in their mind.
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