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Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

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411–420 of 486 posts

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#411

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So, you need a moral support human? Like a big plushie, but more alive?

What is the point of the snark? If you are going to find out that you are dying within a year, do you want to get that as an E-Mail?

The point is: I don't see "emotional support" as a vital part of the job of a radiologist.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#412

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

I'm a diagnostic radiologist with 20 years clinical experience, and I have been programming computers since 1979. I need to challenge one of your core assumptions. > Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. I'm sorry, but I disagree, and I think you are making a wild assumption here. I am up to date on the latest AI products in radiology, use several of…

> When I interpret a study I am not just matching patterns of pixels on the screen with my memory.

Seems like an over simplification, but let's say it's just true. Wouldn't you rather spend your time on novel problems that you haven't seen before? Some ML system identifies easy/common ones that it has high confidence in, leaving the interesting ones for you?

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#413

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

What about the patient that doesn't want to pay $6,000 to go from 99.9% accuracy to 99.95% accuracy?

I don't think the legal framework even allows the patient to make that trade off. Can a patient choose 99.9% accuracy instead of 99.95% accuracy and also waive the right to a malpractice lawsuit?

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#414

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

So you're telling me the reason an extremely expensive yet totally redundant cost in the healthcare infrastructure will remain in place is because of regulatory capture?

You're probably right.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#415

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If we were serious about reducing healthcare cost by optimization then we would be banning private equity from acquiring hospitals.

What is there to indicate "we" or anyone is serious about reducing healthcare costs? The only thing that will reduce costs is competitive pressure. The last major healthcare reform in the US was incredibly anti-competitive and designed with a goal of significantly raising costs but transferring those costs to the government. How could healthcare costs ever go down when the ONLY way for insurers to increase profits is…

>...The only thing that will reduce costs is competitive pressure.

Unfortunately, just yesterday there were a surprising amount of people who seemed to argue that increased competition would at best have no effect, and at worst, would actually increase prices:

https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45372442

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#416

I'm an interventional radiologist with a master's in computer science. People outside radiology don't get why AI hasn't taken over. Can AI read diagnostic images better than a radiologist? Almost certainly the answer is (or will be) yes. Will radiologists be replaced? Almost certainly the answer is no. Why not? Medical risk. Unless the law changes, a radiologist will have to sign off on each imaging report. So say yo…

“Unless the law changes”

Famous last words.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#417
post #277

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like saying that self-driving cars won't ever become a thing because someone behind the wheel needs to be to blame. The article cites AI systems that the FDA already has cleared to operate without a physicians' validation.

The FDA can clear whatever they want. A malpractice lawyer WILL sue and WILL win whenever an AI mistake slips through and no human was in the loop to fix the issue. It's the same way that we can save time and money if we just don't wash our hands when cooking food. Sure it's true. But someone WILL get sick and we WILL get in trouble for it

What's the difference in the lawsuit scenario if a doctor messes up? If the AI is the same or better error rate than a human, then insurance for it should be cheaper. If there's no regulatory blocks, then I don't see how it doesn't ultimately just become a cost comparison.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#418

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - planes cannot "land themselves with zero human intervention" (...). A CAT III autoland on commercial airliners requires a ton of manual setting of systems and certificated aircraft and runways in order to "land themselves" [0][1]. I'm not fully up to speed on the Autonomi / Garmin Autoland implementation found today on Cirrus and other aircraft -- but it's not for "everyday" use for landings. [0] https://pilotin…

Not only that but they are even less capable of taking off on their own (see the work done by Airbus' ATTOL project [0] on what some of the more recent successes are). So I'm not sure what "planes can land on their own" gets us anyway even if autopilot on modern airliners can do an awful lot on their own (including following flight plans in ways that are more advanced than before). The Garmin Autoland basically annou…

How's that not autonomous? The landing is fully automated. The clearance/talking isn't, but we know that's about the easiest part to automate it's just that the incentives aren't quite there.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#419
post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The tech scales, but accessing the training data is a real problem. It's not like scraping the whole internet. And most of it is unlabeled.

If you need more data to scale, and there is no data, it literally can't scale. Scale is not always about trougput. You can be constrained by many things, in this case, data.

I was unclear. There is data, but it is expensive to access, so the value proposition is often not there without some beneficent entity.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#420

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No - planes cannot "land themselves with zero human intervention" (...). A CAT III autoland on commercial airliners requires a ton of manual setting of systems and certificated aircraft and runways in order to "land themselves" [0][1]. I'm not fully up to speed on the Autonomi / Garmin Autoland implementation found today on Cirrus and other aircraft -- but it's not for "everyday" use for landings. [0] https://pilotin…

Not only that but they are even less capable of taking off on their own (see the work done by Airbus' ATTOL project [0] on what some of the more recent successes are). So I'm not sure what "planes can land on their own" gets us anyway even if autopilot on modern airliners can do an awful lot on their own (including following flight plans in ways that are more advanced than before). The Garmin Autoland basically annou…

Taking off on their own is one thing. Being able to properly handle a high-speed abort is another, given that is one of the most dangerous emergency procedures in aviation.
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