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Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

reuters.com

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Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#341

Post by michaelt »

astonex wrote: post #304
matt-p wrote: post #266

So I currently have; A National Insurance Card (needed to get a job), drivers license and passport, one of latter is also needed (in practice) to get a job. Why would a brit card help us reduce the number of people working illegally? The only notable 'employers' of illegal workers in the UK are American tech firms Uber and deliveroo (doordash) because they allow driver substitution without verifying that the substitu…

A Brit can pass a RTW check without a drivers license or a passport - a paper birth certificate is also acceptable (and paper can be lost, damaged, forged), as neither a drivers license or a passport a mandatory. Getting those can be expensive for some people while this ID is free. A NI number is not ID, it's a reporting number. Lastly, a national ID is a tried and tested scheme in many, many countries and brings a l…

> A Brit can pass a RTW check without a drivers license or a passport - paper birth certificate is also acceptable, as neither a drivers license or a passport a mandatory. Getting those can be expensive for some people while this ID is free.

This policy would absolutely sail through, with no controversy at all, if it had just been "free passports for all" reusing all the existing rules, existing IT and existing bureaucracy; and "Optional digital passport on your phone" for those who want that.

Why they're doing this in the most expensive, unpopular way possible - I have no idea.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#342

Post by matt-p »

netdevphoenix wrote: post #325
matt-p wrote: post #298

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I do selfie to prove I match my driver's license all the time (needed for app based banks, and so on)? The government absolutely knows where I work, are you joking? That's what NI numbers are for. You seriously think there isn't a join table in a government database with my NI number and passport number?

There are other workers in the UK aside from you. The policy affects them too not just you. You are getting the business requirements wrong. You are unlikely to be the main reason for the policy. Folks getting paid under minimum wage such as some gig workers using someone else's identity are the main target.

If they arrived here legally won't they have a passport? Or national photo ID at the very least? If they are driving for Uber or deliveroo then they'll have a driver's license too? If they don't have either (or a UK birth certificate) then it's safe to say they're not a legit citizen?

Who exactly are we solving for?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#343

Post by astonex »

matt-p wrote: post #335
astonex wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don't currently have any National ID. You have forms of ID, which others might not have, but none are national mandatory ID that every citizen and resident has. As such many benefits in streamlining and simplifying processes cannot be achieved when everyone has a UID as such. Imagine making a system where you used various ID formats, and you couldn't guarantee anyone had one in particular, and some people had non…

Ok then 'Government issued [photo] ID' so what if it's not a 'national ID'? They have all the data they need to tackle this. You can't get a NI number without proving who you are, if the government don't trust NI numbers (which they are minting?) then they could simply re-issue them? That would be far far easier than a new national ID.

>You can't get a NI number without proving who you are

That's not true either. You're sent your NI number just before 16 years old without providing anything.

Also, an NI number is just a number. There is no photo. How can you look at it and say it belongs to the person presenting it? And no you can't look up a passport or something in another system based on the NI number, because those other IDs aren't mandatory so the person might not have them.

The only way to really ID someone is to have mandatory photo ID, whether that be digital or not.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#344

Post by andyjohnson0 »

arrowsmith wrote: post #226
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely wondering how harsh you'd be willing to be to get what you want. What would you do if an individual can't be deported because no country will accept them? Or if their country of origin is likely to kill or torture them? Or if no commercial carrier is willing to risk operating to that country? Would you be willing to deport unaccompanied children with no guarantee that they'd be cared for?

All the more reason for them to stay in France. The humane option is still available. It’s not too late to take it. But if you keep refusing it, don’t complain when you get something else.

Its not clear what your "humane option" is. Care to explain?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#345

Post by ryukafalz »

In addition to all the issues mentioned in the article, this seems to mean that UK citizens will effectively be forced to accept the terms of service of one of two US companies (Apple or Google). If you must have either an Android or iOS device to run this digital ID app (which presumably will be distributed via the Play Store on Android), there's no other option!

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#346

Post by andyjohnson0 »

diordiderot wrote: post #191
andyjohnson0 wrote: post #169

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm genuinely wondering how harsh you'd be willing to be to get what you want. What would you do if an individual can't be deported because no country will accept them? Or if their country of origin is likely to kill or torture them? Or if no commercial carrier is willing to risk operating to that country? Would you be willing to deport unaccompanied children with no guarantee that they'd be cared for?

This is a perniciously xenophobic take, tbh. Who are you to decide your values are objectively better than theirs? /s There is a village A dragon comes to the village every year. In exchange for 2% of the children, it spares the rest and promises its “magical” protection from unseen enemies. This arrangement has lasted 2,000 years. Most villagers worship it, even though the custom has left their village far worse off…

I'm really not sure what point you're making here. What is the "dragon" in irregular migration. What is the "village"?

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#347

Post by astonex »

iamnothere wrote: post #303
somelamer567 wrote: post #283

HARD eye-roll at the libertarian scaremongering about this basic, sensible idea to tame the identity mess. * I have half a dozen different ID numbers for various things like NI, NHS, drivers license, tax etc * I also have a dozen different GOV.UK logins for various services. * When need to provide strong proof of identity to AWS to reset a root password, I have to go to a notary and pay £200 for a signature and stamp…

I don’t own and refuse to purchase an iPhone or Android device. Where would that leave me? Fortunately I am not a UK citizen! This effectively blocks development of mobile Linux as an alternative in the UK. It is already enough of a challenge to get people to try Linux phones without support for their favorite apps, and now it’s a requirement to own a US big tech pocket spy device? Absolutely absurd and Orwellian, an…

Orwell was born in India. You should learn a little about him before saying everything is Orwellian

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#348

Post by sjapkee »

steve_taylor wrote: post #39
throwawaydjdu wrote: post #11

Reminder that the UK arrests 12000/year for online posts, by far the most in the West. The UK already has government issued ID, the proof of age card. This is about tying your identity to your online behaviour.

My prediction is that it will soon be a requirement for all websites and apps with user-generated content to require authentication with the UK government's Digital ID OAuth provider and that requirement will include linking the user's username to their Digital ID. It won't require websites and apps to pay a third-party provider to check users' identity, so the UK government can argue that it doesn't place a dispropo…

Internet peaked too early to build any countermeasures for this.

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#349

Post by netdevphoenix »

matt-p wrote: post #342
netdevphoenix wrote: post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are other workers in the UK aside from you. The policy affects them too not just you. You are getting the business requirements wrong. You are unlikely to be the main reason for the policy. Folks getting paid under minimum wage such as some gig workers using someone else's identity are the main target.

If they arrived here legally won't they have a passport? Or national photo ID at the very least? If they are driving for Uber or deliveroo then they'll have a driver's license too? If they don't have either (or a UK birth certificate) then it's safe to say they're not a legit citizen? Who exactly are we solving for?

> If they arrived here legally won't they have a passport? Or national photo ID at the very least? If they are driving for Uber or deliveroo then they'll have a driver's license too? If they don't have either (or a UK birth certificate) then it's safe to say they're not a legit citizen?

Simple. Overstaying or/and expired passport will lead to that. Valid status is not a fixed binary state. It is better described as a function of personal id, rights docs and current time. Currently, the checks are more akin to updating a Boolean column on rare occasions. Digital id countries do checks more like function calls that you can perform easily and quickly

Re: Britain to introduce compulsory digital ID for workers

#350

Post by reactordev »

matt-p wrote: post #339
motbus3 wrote: post #323

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe they plan to ask Uber and deliveroo to authenticate the workers via facial recognition?

In order to drive a motorcycle or car you need a driving license which has photo ID? Ok maybe you deliver by push bike.. but if you arrived here legally you will have a passport? If you didn't you ergo don't have the right to work here?

Outsourced to companies that don’t share data, which is why the government is requiring you to submit more data. How hard is this? Eventually they’ll have your DNA, Fingerprints, photos, family trees, employment history, money, spending habits, vices, travel locations, conversations, and your comings and goings via license plate readers.

Welcome to your future.

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