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Some things need to change

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Re: Some things need to change

#81

Post by hk »

scott_s wrote: post #69
hk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about that, it is illegal, at least in the US and some other places. I had no idea. I disagree, too; it's highly distasteful but shouldn't actually be criminal - but that's getting off topic. Anyway I stand corrected.

And if the spitter has, say, hepatitis?

If someone with an infectious disease knowingly infects another, whether it be by unprotected sex without disclosure or by spitting, then that is malicious intent to harm and is already well covered by law.

Re: Some things need to change

#82

Post by alain94040 »

This is unacceptable. I'll venture to guess that it's coming from a european entrepreneur who didn't get the bad jokes that Mike was putting out in his fake fight with Loic.

But (you know there's a "but" coming). But actually, no, it's unexcusable, no matter what.

To you the spitter: no matter your issues, you made the wrong choice and deserver zero respect.

Re: Some things need to change

#83

Post by hk »

tallanvor wrote: post #62
hk wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about that, it is illegal, at least in the US and some other places. I had no idea. I disagree, too; it's highly distasteful but shouldn't actually be criminal - but that's getting off topic. Anyway I stand corrected.

It's assault, plain and simple. --How can you justify doing that to someone?

Assault is punished by law according to physical consequence. If you break someone's jaw, you go to jail. If you break their heart by verbal assault, you don't.

There are no physical consequences to being spat on by a healthy person (if they are sick and do so knowingly to infect you, that is completely different). It is an insult, a grotesque one, but an insult none the less, and should be treated as such by law.

Re: Some things need to change

#84

Post by jimbokun »

jncraton wrote: post #72
[deleted] wrote: post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[deleted]

I don't personally know why you got downmodded, but karma isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, it doesn't add anything to the conversation to add meta conversation about people not liking your comment. It happens sometimes, and it isn't any fun, but things work a lot better for all of us when we all just move on. From the HN guidelines: "Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never doe…

Also amusing that someone who seems to be fine with spitting on someone as legitimate communication, getting up in arms about a down arrow on a web page.

Would you prefer to be spat on instead?

Re: Some things need to change

#85

Post by hk »

dcminter wrote: post #65
hk wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Huh? You think that spitting on someone should be illegal !? I don't understand what you mean, anyway. You don't like his business, you don't like his writing, but you have all sorts of cares for him ? Er .. why? What would he have to do to make you finally relinquish your sympathy? In my book, a man is but the sum of his actions. I can't stand Arrington's actions, therefore I can't stand him, ergo I have no sympathy…

"You think that spitting on someone should be illegal!?" As noted it is illegal in most countries. "I don't understand what you mean, anyway. [...] What would he have to do to make you finally relinquish your sympathy?" Something a great deal worse than writing articles that do not much interest me. I find it incomprehensible that someone could find a matter of mere taste to be sufficient justification for a crime. "…

Not "most" countries. I am not sure it is even "many" countries. And whether something is illegal is not an argument for whether it should be illegal - see Saudi Arabia.

I don't remember defining bravery anywhere? I simply said that in my opinion, most "cowards" don't consummate their cowardice by walking up to big guys (Arrington is a big guy) and spitting on them.

Re: Some things need to change

#86

Post by kailashbadu »

hk wrote: post #15

Spitting in his face is going a bit far, but it's pretty difficult for me to feel sympathy for the guy. I struggle to think of a more dislikable, arrogant jerk. This belated plea for human-to-human sympathy falls on deaf ears, for me at least. In my group, Arrington symbolises everything we hate about the "Web 2.0" greed culture. He's relentlessly promoted himself as the gatekeeper to this bullshit world of easy VC m…

Yuck! No matter how much you abhor a person, you don’t have a right to harm or intimidate the person. Intolerance seemingly is at it’s peak. I just hope the frustrated, overworked yet underperforming, and morally debauched ‘European entrepreneur’ doesn’t typifies our usual web entrepreneur. To me he seems like just another desperate chap who was hoping to be another run-away hit in the web without a lot of hard work. The declining economy, tighter markets, fierce competition, and resulting desperation could be blamed for the depravity.

Re: Some things need to change

#87

Post by hk »

jimbokun wrote: post #84
jncraton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally know why you got downmodded, but karma isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, it doesn't add anything to the conversation to add meta conversation about people not liking your comment. It happens sometimes, and it isn't any fun, but things work a lot better for all of us when we all just move on. From the HN guidelines: "Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never doe…

Also amusing that someone who seems to be fine with spitting on someone as legitimate communication, getting up in arms about a down arrow on a web page. Would you prefer to be spat on instead?

Of course not. And I'm not fine about it at all, it's a disgusting thing to do. I just can understand why people might be driven to do it, and don't think it should be an actual crime!

I'm beginning to suspect my writing style is prone to misunderstanding, though. C'est la vie.

Re: Some things need to change

#88

Post by jncraton »

hk wrote: post #77
jncraton wrote: post #72

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't personally know why you got downmodded, but karma isn't that important in the grand scheme of things. Honestly, it doesn't add anything to the conversation to add meta conversation about people not liking your comment. It happens sometimes, and it isn't any fun, but things work a lot better for all of us when we all just move on. From the HN guidelines: "Resist complaining about being downmodded. It never doe…

Fair enough, I hadn't read those guidelines - thanks for the tip. Won't do it again. I do wish those guidelines had something about why to mod up or down, though. Modding something down or up simply because you happen to agree, regardless of the quality or validity of the argument presented, will also lead to boring reading - the majority view, endlessly repeated, since it's the only "safe" thing to post.

It is somewhat unfortunate that this isn't in the guidelines, but it is a natural tendency and would be impossible to try to clean up by enforcement. Eventually, you will get used to the general group mentality. Some things can be said in a very few words and will be understood and accepted because they follow the way that most of us think. Other things have to be laid out logically so that a debate on your thinking can follow.

In defense of the site though, your initial downmodded comment was rather condescending and showed a lack of knowledge of the area. Responding to someones idea with "Huh? You really think that?" isn't very respectful and it shows a certain amount of arrogance. Arrogance is frowned upon pretty heavily here. It doesn't add anything to the discussion when you are correct and is just plain obnoxious when you are wrong. Be humble about what you know, ask questions about what you don't, and provide logical arguments for what you think. That's a big part of what sets this site apart from a lot of the other sites like it.

Re: Some things need to change

#89

Post by biohacker42 »

zhyder wrote: post #2

This is terrible, worse than people speculating about Steve Jobs' health, as an example of how low folks in our industry can go. (I know they're unrelated but the 2 evoke the same emotions in me.) I desperately want Michael Arrington to cover my startup as well, but I still can't understand those that threatened or spat on him. Michael, I hope you return to regular writing after Feb, but if you don't, thanks for all…

an example of how low folks in our industry can go

There's nothing special about our industry, crazy people are everywhere.

It's a simple numbers game, become popular enough and your popularity will cover some number of mentally unstable individuals.

Actresses, singers and presidents have all been shot for no other reason then they were famous.

Public criticism or lack of coverage probably makes things worse for Arrington, but I'm guessing not by much. Crazy people by definition do not behave rationally.

I'm not sure there is a solution to that beyond, make sure you keep as much of your life as you can secret.

The name of the young actress who was killed by her stalker some years ago escapes me, but I think he was able to get her address form the DMV.

Arrington can either quit, or keep paying for security, or find a way to keep his office and his home secret.

Re: Some things need to change

#90

Post by hk »

jncraton wrote: post #88
hk wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fair enough, I hadn't read those guidelines - thanks for the tip. Won't do it again. I do wish those guidelines had something about why to mod up or down, though. Modding something down or up simply because you happen to agree, regardless of the quality or validity of the argument presented, will also lead to boring reading - the majority view, endlessly repeated, since it's the only "safe" thing to post.

It is somewhat unfortunate that this isn't in the guidelines, but it is a natural tendency and would be impossible to try to clean up by enforcement. Eventually, you will get used to the general group mentality. Some things can be said in a very few words and will be understood and accepted because they follow the way that most of us think. Other things have to be laid out logically so that a debate on your thinking…

Yeah, I guess I'm more used to slashdot. I'll take some time to get used to the culture of the site before poking the nest with a stick again.

I assume you're a moderator - although they're much appreciated by myself, these well-written tips will just get lost in the noise here. You might consider adding them to the FAQ yourself : )

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