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My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

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Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#221

Post by gloosx »

fluoridation wrote: post #219
gloosx wrote: post #217

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What was lost, and who lost it? What's lost is opportunity . All that wealth could have gone into projects that produce lasting value: infrastructure, innovation, healthcare. Instead, it was sunk into an activity with no return. Misallocation of capital is a loss measured in foregone progress, society ends up poorer than it could have been, because while we could have had a new hospital or brigde, workers were busy…

>What's lost is opportunity. Surely it's my problem and my problem alone if I want to lose the opportunity to spend my money in something fruitful to instead spend it in something pointless and worthless. >while we could have had a new hospital or brigde Well, no. It was my money I spent. Regardless of what I was going to do with it, building hospitals and bridges was never in the cards. Let's say that I made my fort…

No one is saying you should be banned from digging holes. The point is: if too much capital keeps flowing into holes instead of hospitals, bridges, or innovation, the economy produces less long-term value. That imbalance is what we call a misallocation of capital.

In other words: criticising waste != demanding central planning. It just means recognising that not all spending contributes equally to future prosperity.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#222

Post by fluoridation »

gloosx wrote: post #221
fluoridation wrote: post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>What's lost is opportunity. Surely it's my problem and my problem alone if I want to lose the opportunity to spend my money in something fruitful to instead spend it in something pointless and worthless. >while we could have had a new hospital or brigde Well, no. It was my money I spent. Regardless of what I was going to do with it, building hospitals and bridges was never in the cards. Let's say that I made my fort…

No one is saying you should be banned from digging holes. The point is: if too much capital keeps flowing into holes instead of hospitals, bridges, or innovation, the economy produces less long-term value. That imbalance is what we call a misallocation of capital. In other words: criticising waste != demanding central planning. It just means recognising that not all spending contributes equally to future prosperity.

>if too much capital keeps flowing into holes instead of hospitals, bridges, or innovation, the economy produces less long-term value [...] not all spending contributes equally to future prosperity.

Mmh... In an absolute sense, sure, there are actions that destroy wealth. Like I if I buy huge reserves of minerals and smelt them together so someone else has to spend vast amounts of energy to recycle them back into a usable form, that's definitely harmful. Or as a more realistic example, if I build a factory to churn out millions of worthless gadgets no one wants, where the raw materials could have been put to something useful. These are things that objectively lower the total wealth of the planet, because they increase entropy, which requires more energy to reverse.

But if I dig a giant hole... I don't see how the same applies. If nothing else, I paid for the wages of the workers. How is the world poorer after I spent a trillion dollars to keep a few million workers busy for a few years? To bring this conversation around, in what way does a player transfer make the world poorer?

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#223

Post by gloosx »

fluoridation wrote: post #222
gloosx wrote: post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one is saying you should be banned from digging holes. The point is: if too much capital keeps flowing into holes instead of hospitals, bridges, or innovation, the economy produces less long-term value. That imbalance is what we call a misallocation of capital. In other words: criticising waste != demanding central planning. It just means recognising that not all spending contributes equally to future prosperity.

>if too much capital keeps flowing into holes instead of hospitals, bridges, or innovation, the economy produces less long-term value [...] not all spending contributes equally to future prosperity. Mmh... In an absolute sense, sure, there are actions that destroy wealth. Like I if I buy huge reserves of minerals and smelt them together so someone else has to spend vast amounts of energy to recycle them back into a u…

>How is the world poorer after I spent a trillion dollars to keep a few million workers busy for a few years? To bring this conversation around, in what way does a player transfer make the world poorer?

It feels like I answered this many times already, and we keep beating the same dead horse. It's is like a DDOS for the economy, this hole metaphor. The world is poorer because the time, labour and money which went into hole could have been spent on something productive. Instead of a player transfer money could have went into something like a fusion reactor, which brings cheaper energy instead of a show-off. Of course, everyone is free to do what they want with their wealth, just as I am free to criticise their decisions, because I want my kids to live in a world of prosperity, not in a world of excavators.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#224

Post by PeterStuer »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #207
PeterStuer wrote: post #203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You realize it is an app on a phone, so the customer is always known, right?

I don’t really understand this comment. What do you mean that the customer “is always known”? To whom? How?

The LALIGA Official App on Android requires permissions to access Personal Information and Device or other IDs to provide services, send notifications, and facilitate registration. It may also involve location data and audio features, though these are not explicitly listed in the permissions. The app also shares your data with third parties and uses your email for the LALIGA Ecosystem.

Specific Permissions and Uses

Personal Information:

The app collects your personal data, such as your email, to allow you to log in, register for services, and provide you with content and information about your favorite teams.

Device or other IDs:

This type of ID is used to facilitate your registration and access to the app.

Location Data:

The app may use your phone's location to identify establishments showing football matches, potentially for a piracy detection feature.

Audio/Microphone Access:

In the past, La Liga has used the official app to remotely activate the microphone to detect audio from football matches, particularly in bars.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#225

Post by d1sxeyes »

PeterStuer wrote: post #224
d1sxeyes wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t really understand this comment. What do you mean that the customer “is always known”? To whom? How?

The LALIGA Official App on Android requires permissions to access Personal Information and Device or other IDs to provide services, send notifications, and facilitate registration. It may also involve location data and audio features, though these are not explicitly listed in the permissions. The app also shares your data with third parties and uses your email for the LALIGA Ecosystem. Specific Permissions and Uses P…

It feels like you perhaps didn't understand my comment. I'm not saying that LALIGA couldn't identify you if they wanted. They certainly could (and probably do).

What I'm saying is that it is possible to build a system where the app dispatches some kind of event to a server which does not have any identifying information associated with it.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#226

Post by cestith »

codedokode wrote: post #189
cestith wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often it’s not. Back when Sony put a Windows rootkit on autorun on music CDs just in case someone wanted to rip a FLAC, that was a felony violation of the CFAA in the US. The big difference is consent. If I use your app to watch a game and the conditions of using your app include giving you microphone access, that’s legal. If you breach my phone to turn on the mic and listen to me, that’s illegal.

So if someone for example, adds a statement to T&C that as a payment for use of software, the user consents to collecting of a sequence of pressed keys (including 16-digit numbers) and selling them on the black market to whoever is interested, it becomes legal?

Where did I say that?

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#227

Post by cestith »

john01dav wrote: post #213
cestith wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Often it’s not. Back when Sony put a Windows rootkit on autorun on music CDs just in case someone wanted to rip a FLAC, that was a felony violation of the CFAA in the US. The big difference is consent. If I use your app to watch a game and the conditions of using your app include giving you microphone access, that’s legal. If you breach my phone to turn on the mic and listen to me, that’s illegal.

Calling something like that "consent" when it's the only (legal) way to obtain specific services is extremely dubious. A much more rigorous definition of "consent" is generally enforced in cases where the ruling class doesn't gain by having such consent.

I agree it’s dubious. In the US cases have happened in which onerous requirements in shrink-wrap agreements were thrown out. I have no idea about Spain, but I’m betting asking for that permission in the phone app and getting it approved by the user is legally sufficient to at least make the company comfortable doing so. It may be a bold legal stance they’ll regret later, but if I took a guess I’d say this will get controlled by legislation rather than a court unless the country just wants to slide further into corporate control.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#228

Post by PeterStuer »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #225
PeterStuer wrote: post #224

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The LALIGA Official App on Android requires permissions to access Personal Information and Device or other IDs to provide services, send notifications, and facilitate registration. It may also involve location data and audio features, though these are not explicitly listed in the permissions. The app also shares your data with third parties and uses your email for the LALIGA Ecosystem. Specific Permissions and Uses P…

It feels like you perhaps didn't understand my comment. I'm not saying that LALIGA couldn't identify you if they wanted. They certainly could (and probably do). What I'm saying is that it is possible to build a system where the app dispatches some kind of event to a server which does not have any identifying information associated with it.

It is always possible. Even if you do not need any permissions to access the AndroidID, nobody forces you, the app seller, to use it.

I have worked as an enterprise integratation architect in highly regulated environments. Sometimes you reuse interfaces that give you tons of info you are not supposed to have access to. You sign contracts that you will never look at this (dump it at the interface layer). This is acceptible in compliance.

Chances that in this case the app does not hover up all it can? 0%

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#229

Post by d1sxeyes »

PeterStuer wrote: post #228
d1sxeyes wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It feels like you perhaps didn't understand my comment. I'm not saying that LALIGA couldn't identify you if they wanted. They certainly could (and probably do). What I'm saying is that it is possible to build a system where the app dispatches some kind of event to a server which does not have any identifying information associated with it.

It is always possible. Even if you do not need any permissions to access the AndroidID, nobody forces you, the app seller, to use it. I have worked as an enterprise integratation architect in highly regulated environments. Sometimes you reuse interfaces that give you tons of info you are not supposed to have access to. You sign contracts that you will never look at this (dump it at the interface layer). This is accep…

It’s not about “the app”. The app can have two or two million datapoints locally.

What matters in terms of processing is how much of it gets sent to LALIGA (or their provider).

On a separate note, I am surprised you think you can just promise not to look at something. You can’t, it’s not “acceptable in compliance”, and I’m not even sure what that means—there’s no body that certifies GDPR compliance.

Re: My game's server is blocked in Spain whenever there's a football match on

#230

Post by PeterStuer »

d1sxeyes wrote: post #229
PeterStuer wrote: post #228

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is always possible. Even if you do not need any permissions to access the AndroidID, nobody forces you, the app seller, to use it. I have worked as an enterprise integratation architect in highly regulated environments. Sometimes you reuse interfaces that give you tons of info you are not supposed to have access to. You sign contracts that you will never look at this (dump it at the interface layer). This is accep…

It’s not about “the app”. The app can have two or two million datapoints locally. What matters in terms of processing is how much of it gets sent to LALIGA (or their provider). On a separate note, I am surprised you think you can just promise not to look at something. You can’t, it’s not “acceptable in compliance”, and I’m not even sure what that means—there’s no body that certifies GDPR compliance.

It is acceptible. I have sat many times through compliance meetings and negotiations. I would think compliance officers of very large enterprises know their game.
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