Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

worksinprogress.news

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

161–170 of 486 posts

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#161

Post by duchef »

nick__m wrote: post #76
jonas21 wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People love to bring this up, and it was a silly thing to say -- particularly since he didn't seem to understand that radiologists only spend a small part of their time reading scans. But he said it in the context of a Q&A session that happened to be recorded. Unless you're a skilled politician who can give answers without actually saying anything, you're going to say silly things once in a while in unscripted settin…

Radiologists, here, mostly sit at home, read scan and dictate reports. They rarely talk to other doctors and talking to a patient is beyond them. They are some of the specialists with the best salary. With interventional radiologists and radio-oncologists it's different but were talking about radiologists here...

I'm a radiologist and spend 50% of my time either talking to patients or other clinicians.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#162

Post by moate »

kklisura wrote: post #54

When Tesla demoed (via video) self-driving in 2016 with a claim "The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" and then when they unveiled Semi in 2017 - I tweeted out and honestly thought that trucking industry is changed forever and it doesn't make sense to be starting in trucking industry. It's almost end of 2025 and either nothing out of it o…

This story (the demand for Radiologists) really shows a very important thing about AI: It's great when it has training data, and bad at weird edge cases.

Gee, seems like about the worst fucking thing in the world for diagnostics if you ask me, but what do I know, my degree is in sandwiches and pudding.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#163

Post by KalMann »

jonas21 wrote: post #29
lomase wrote: post #5

In 2016, Geoffrey Hinton – computer scientist and Turing Award winner – declared that ‘people should stop training radiologists now’. If we had followed every AI evengelist sugestion the world would have collapsed.

People love to bring this up, and it was a silly thing to say -- particularly since he didn't seem to understand that radiologists only spend a small part of their time reading scans. But he said it in the context of a Q&A session that happened to be recorded. Unless you're a skilled politician who can give answers without actually saying anything, you're going to say silly things once in a while in unscripted settin…

[dead]

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#164

Post by BurningFrog »

CodesInChaos wrote: post #85
kklisura wrote: post #54

When Tesla demoed (via video) self-driving in 2016 with a claim "The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" and then when they unveiled Semi in 2017 - I tweeted out and honestly thought that trucking industry is changed forever and it doesn't make sense to be starting in trucking industry. It's almost end of 2025 and either nothing out of it o…

> thought that trucking industry is changed forever What I find really crazy is that most trains are still driven by humans.

Much of that is about union power more than tech maturity.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#165

Post by phkahler »

kklisura wrote: post #54

When Tesla demoed (via video) self-driving in 2016 with a claim "The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" and then when they unveiled Semi in 2017 - I tweeted out and honestly thought that trucking industry is changed forever and it doesn't make sense to be starting in trucking industry. It's almost end of 2025 and either nothing out of it o…

I realized long ago that full unattended self driving requires AGI. I think Elon finally figured that out. So now LLMs are going to evolve into AGI any moment. Um no. Tesla (and others) have effectively been working on AGI for 10 years with no luck

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#166

Post by sarchertech »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #45
djoldman wrote: post #10

> Three things explain this. First,... Second, attempts to give models more tasks have run into legal hurdles: regulators and medical insurers so far are reluctant to approve or cover fully autonomous radiology models. Third, even when they do diagnose accurately, models replace only a small share of a radiologist’s job. Human radiologists spend a minority of their time on diagnostics and the majority on other activi…

>Human radiologists spend a minority of their time on diagnostics and the majority on other activities, like talking to patients and fellow clinicians. How often do they talk to patients? Every time I have ever had an x-ray, I have never talked to a radiologist. Fellow clinicians? Train the xray tech up a bit more. If the mote is 'talking to people' that is a mote that doesn't need an MD, or at least not a full speci…

I don’t think they talk to patients all that often but my wife is an ER doctor and she says she talks to them all the time.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#167

Post by osrec »

1718627440 wrote: post #154
CamperBob2 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Anecdotes like this are informative as far as they go, but they don't say anything at all about the technique itself. Like your story about the fonts used for labeling, essentially all of the drawbacks cited by the article come down to inadequate or inappropriate training methods and data. Fix that, which will not be hard from a purely-technical standpoint, and you will indeed be able to replace radiologists. Sorry,…

When it weren't for the font it might be anomalies in the image taking or even in the encoder software. You can never really be sure, what exactly the ML is detecting.

Exactly. A marginally higher image ISO at one location vs a lower ISO at another could potentially have a similar effect, and it would be quite difficult to detect.

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#168

Post by tekno45 »

phkahler wrote: post #165
kklisura wrote: post #54

When Tesla demoed (via video) self-driving in 2016 with a claim "The person in the driver’s seat is only there for legal reasons. He is not doing anything. The car is driving itself" and then when they unveiled Semi in 2017 - I tweeted out and honestly thought that trucking industry is changed forever and it doesn't make sense to be starting in trucking industry. It's almost end of 2025 and either nothing out of it o…

I realized long ago that full unattended self driving requires AGI. I think Elon finally figured that out. So now LLMs are going to evolve into AGI any moment. Um no. Tesla (and others) have effectively been working on AGI for 10 years with no luck

So waymo has AGI?

Re: Demand for human radiologists is at an all-time high

#170

Post by sarchertech »

CamperBob2 wrote: post #135
jmhmd wrote: post #128

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The issue is that in medicine, much like automobiles, unexpected failure modes may be catastrophic to individual people. “Fixing” failure modes like the above comment is not difficult from a technical standpoint, that’s true, but you can only fix it once you’ve identified it, and at that point you may have a dead person/people. That’s why AI in medicine and self driving cars are so unlike AI for programming or writin…

Yet self-driving cars are already competitive with human drivers, safety-wise, given responsible engineering and deployment practices. Like medicine, self-driving is more of a seemingly-unsolvable political problem than a seemingly-unsolvable technical one. It's not entirely clear how we'll get there from here, but it will be solved. Would you put money on humans still driving themselves around 25-50 years from now?…

> Yet self-driving cars are already competitive with human drivers, safety-wise, given responsible engineering and deployment practices.

Are they? Self driving cars only operate in a much safer subset of conditions that humans do. They have remote operators who will take over if a situation arises outside of the normal operating parameters. That or they will just pull over and stop.

Post reply on HN