Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

theguardian.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

431–440 of 894 posts

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#431

Post by lucasmullens »

colpabar wrote: post #378
squigz wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is thinking that the only form of protest anyone ever engages in is tweeting things. Some people stop supporting companies they disagree with, both individually and, if they're able, with their own company.

But that’s my point - who will do that? Who is going to go to their company’s CEO and convince them to put in the massive amount of effort to switch cloud providers? Who is going to say “I don’t think we should use Teams anymore” and actually be able to switch to something else? I have no idea if microsoft even cares about retail customers anymore, but are there really enough people who are going to boycott microsoft…

Some people like me are running a company and are still picking out their tech stack. I don't like Microsoft, and that absolutely affects how likely I am to use their services. My situation might not be that common but PR surely still matters some.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#432

Post by flyinglizard »

basilgohar wrote: post #185
vkou wrote: post #129

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Let's not get too far ahead of ourselves, here, that would have the stench of colonialism about it. It's not their land to 'return to' - after all, people already live there and they have no moral right to displace them.

How do you think Israel was formed in the first place? Or is your comment intentionally ironic?

Israel was not formed by displacement. That's a common misconception. Jews bought lands all across Palestine in early 1900's, with bodies such as the JNF. The displacement ("Nakba") came in 1948, during the Israeli War of Independence (started by the Arabs in Palestine and abroad), and even that mostly concerned areas which participated in the war. Areas that remained peaceful integrated into Israel (today's Israeli Arabs, 23% of the population).

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#433

Post by jajuuka »

dmix wrote: post #317
thewebguyd wrote: post #263

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rioting and vandalism are unacceptable...until they aren't and are instead necessary. Is everyone so quick to forget that the rights we have today in the US were won through violence after all other methods failed? The 40 hour work week we enjoy today was also won through blood. Now, in this case between employees and Microsoft I'd agree, no, vandalism wasn't necessary at all. But when it comes to defending our right…

There’s been a couple studies showing that disruptive protests (blocking roads, yelling at people entering buildings, etc) cause public support for their cause to decrease or even increase opposition. If the ideas are good then support will build through effectively communicating those ideas. Being noisy is fine but there’s an obvious line that selfish activists cross. The sort of people who want their toys now and d…

The classic "an effective protest is one that is neither seen nor heard". Which is just ahistorical. Civil rights in the US was not passed because black folks explained to white people that they are people deserving the same rights as them. I hate this white washing of history as a series of peaceful movements that everyone agreed with.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#434

Post by themafia »

lo_zamoyski wrote: post #230
sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #139

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's a funny way to say "they fired staff that vandalized company property, broke into the CEO's office, and used an internal company website to publish and promote anti-company propaganda". That will get you fired from bussing tables or washing dishes, let alone a six-figure job at MS. Edit: Source on the last one; the first two were widely reported on in media: https://lunduke.substack.com/p/fired-microsoft-emplo…

Some people seem to think rioting and vandalism are acceptable behaviors. It's important that people engaging in such activity are dealt with swiftly and justly. Such behavior further encourages violence and destruction as acceptable behaviors in society, which they are not.

The employees weren't "rioting."

Vandalism can be measured in dollars. How much did this vandalism actually cost Microsoft to repair?

It's important that we don't ignore context.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#435

Post by flyinglizard »

Joeboy wrote: post #242
some-guy wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It has changed quite a bit here in the US too, even among the Jewish population. Our synagogue is very divided on this, mainly between the young and the old.

“There you are, Mr. Netanyahu! Just who do you think you are, killing thousands and flattening neighborhoods, then wrapping yourself in Judaism like it’s some shield from criticism? You’re making life for Jews miserable, and life for American Jews impossible!” - Jewish character on the latest South Park, a show created and run by two Jewish people. Also ”It’s not Jews vs. Palestine, it’s Israel vs. Palestine!”

Palestinians don't discern Jews and Israelis. If you listen to this recording you'll understand - they're after the Jews: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bACNYtaLBQI

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#436

Post by JumpCrisscross »

hashim wrote: post #420

As someone who's been boycotting Microsoft in line with the BDS movement, I welcome this (belated) move, but seeing Bill Gates on stage laughing (maybe nervously) at Ibtihal Aboussad's (now validated) protest still makes me uneasy about a guy who I previously followed and liked to a reasonable extent, and I'll still probably hold off on watching his most recent documentaries. It makes me wonder how comfortable you ha…

> how comfortable you have to be (as a supposed philanthropist, no less) with the deaths of tens of thousands of brown kids to laugh in a situation like that

Laughing at someone yelling on stage can be entirely orthogonal to what they’re saying. (And it’s not like that outburst did anything.)

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#437

Post by themafia »

dijit wrote: post #356

I think people don't tend to realise how authoritarian the internal structures of companies are. They're effectively miniature dictatorships. Normalising removing services because a tenant does something you personally find disagreeable is fine in the moment, but what happens when it's someone you support? Like when they removed Office365 access for a member of the EU parliament.[0] For me, this is more proof (not le…

> is fine in the moment, but what happens when it's someone you support?

That's why I never find it "fine." It's only a matter of time before corporate power finds it's way to your hobby horse. I thought part of the "hacker vibe" was being highly suspicious of any form of authority.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#438

Post by lostlogin »

hashim wrote: post #338
colpabar wrote: post #264

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really wonder if a company like microsoft has any real concern over people tweeting negative things about it. It seems like companies are finally realizing a lot of it can just be ignored, but with microsoft specifically, what’s the risk? Who in a position to deny ms enough money that they’d care or even notice is going to decide to do it based on people protesting?

Yes, unfortunately this is what happens when you have people who are constantly critical of Microsoft based on what they know of the company from the 90s and 00s, it devalues genuine modern criticisms and makes all criticism meaningless.

> this is what happens when you have people who are constantly critical of Microsoft based on what they know of the company from the 90s and 00s

There are more than a couple of us who have Office or Teams imposed on us. There is plenty to complain about that is current and most definitely valid.

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#439

Post by [deleted] »

sugarpimpdorsey wrote: post #416
rkachowski wrote: post #404

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You feel that being fired is an appropriate consequence to interrupting a CEO?

Interrupting a speech? Yes. It demonstrates a lack of maturity, decorum, and is completely unprofessional. Someone who pulls these shenanigans is unworthy of the role they were hired for. This isn't high school anymore. They were hired to perform productive work not be disruptive and play pretend activist.

[deleted]

Re: Microsoft blocks Israel’s use of its tech in mass surveillance of Palestinians

#440

Post by squigz »

colpabar wrote: post #378
squigz wrote: post #305

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem here is thinking that the only form of protest anyone ever engages in is tweeting things. Some people stop supporting companies they disagree with, both individually and, if they're able, with their own company.

But that’s my point - who will do that? Who is going to go to their company’s CEO and convince them to put in the massive amount of effort to switch cloud providers? Who is going to say “I don’t think we should use Teams anymore” and actually be able to switch to something else? I have no idea if microsoft even cares about retail customers anymore, but are there really enough people who are going to boycott microsoft…

> are there really enough people who are going to boycott microsoft products

Maybe not, but some is better than none, and I'll continue to push more people to do it, rather than tell them nothing they do matters.

> over this?

Maybe it's not just this. Maybe this is the straw that breaks the user's back. Or maybe the next thing is.

My point was to address your belief that they're too big for anyone to make any difference. That isn't true, and the belief that you or any other citizen can't make a difference is their biggest advantage.

(I put this last because I know what HN will say to this, but: are CEOs and other executives not people too? Can they not make principled moves either?)

Post reply on HN