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ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

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Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#191

Post by logicchains »

thinkingtoilet wrote: post #158
quotemstr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws don't stop men with guns. Men with guns stop men with guns. Laws not enforced and rights not protected don't matter. As the old saying goes, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

>Men with guns stop men with guns. Really? Why does America, the country with the most guns by far, have the most gun deaths by far? It's very tiring arguing these very obvious points over and over.

Nazi Germany, Communist China and Soviet Russia have by far the largest number of deaths by _men with guns_, over a hundred million people killed by their own governments. The guns of US citizens have so far prevented this kind of government-led mass citizen genocide from happening. The number of people killed by gun violence in the US is a rounding error compared to the number of people killed by Mao, Hitler and Stalin.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#192

Post by logicchains »

mapontosevenths wrote: post #58
quotemstr wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Laws don't stop men with guns. Men with guns stop men with guns. Laws not enforced and rights not protected don't matter. As the old saying goes, the price of freedom is eternal vigilance.

> Laws don't stop men with guns. Men with guns stop men with guns. Prove it. Every statistic I've ever seen shows the exact opposite of this to be true.

Here's the proof: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mass_killings_under_communist_... . Those kinds of mass killings can only happen when the citizens are disarmed, because it's logistically impossible for a government to seize absolute power when a significant proportion of the citizens are armed.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#193

Post by sjsdaiuasgdia »

_9ptr wrote: post #176
KPGv2 wrote: post #171

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The US constitution has a crystal clear right to bear arms It looks like it was drafted by an ESL speaker. It's by far the worst-drafted amendment, grammatically speaking: > A well regulated Militia, being necessary to the security of a free State, the right of the people to keep and bear Arms, shall not be infringed. It's not even a valid English sentence, and it certainly never bothers to define "Arms." Not to me…

Remove the first and last comma and the sentence works splendidly

Ok, get a 2/3 majority of the House and Senate to approve a proposed edit removing those commas, and then get 3/4 of the state legislatures to approve it.

Until then, the commas are officially part of the text.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#194

Post by 6r17 »

haolez wrote: post #3

I think the challenge for society here is not to simply reject attempts like this, but how to prevent them from being pushed over and over until a specific context allows it to be approved.

This has to be written in the constitution somehow ; it has to comes down to the values of everyone - and i believe a lot of education has to do with it. Currently people are simply not tilted by it as much - or not in a way comparable to other topics.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#195

Post by kleiba »

The is the n-th attempt to install some regulation that would (a) lead to increased surveillance of most of the population; and (b) is trivial to circumvent by those who the government is ostensibly trying to target. So clearly, the cost-benefit ratio is severely skewed for the EU population.

Assuming that the regulators are fully aware of the above points, it's not very hard to speculate what the real intentions behind all of this are.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#196

Post by nisten »

i_am_a_squirrel wrote: post #81
nisten wrote: post #36

If you are a smart kid in europe learn to vibecode XChacha20 & ed25519 encryption keys for you and your friends to chat with so you can go tell your incompetent government to go fuck themselves.

but then they'll make this a crime

they're too slow,

by the time they do the kids can just vibecode another chat app for themselve

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#197

Post by ux266478 »

DangitBobby wrote: post #102
Imustaskforhelp wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think of constitution as a contract between the citizens and the state and the (judiciary?) Like, constitution both defines the rights of citizens and the limits of those rights and the same goes for the states. I feel as if the creators of constitutions think that it is a set of checks and balances... Just as if how a citizen violates something written in the constitution, the state can punish it. In the same mann…

A large portion of the population either does not believe or does not mind the violations of our constitution to achieve their desired outcomes. As an American, it came as a surprise to me that we do not, in fact, have broadly shared values about our system of governance. This year has been a devastating blow to my confidence in our democracy and the ability of people to govern themselves generally.

> As an American, it came as a surprise to me that we do not, in fact, have broadly shared values about our system of governance.

It shouldn't, America is two very distinct nations. The shape and nature of those nations vary wildly in classical Baudrilliardian sidewinding progression, but it's rooted in the very early history of British North America. Two distinct primogenitor colonies and societies, Jamestown and Plymouth. Founded for different reasons, in different contexts, by different people. Understanding the disparity is key to understanding a great deal about America. This divide has always persisted. Jefferson was of Tidewater, Hamilton was of Yankeedom. Democrats vs Whigs. Dixie vs Yankeedom. This split persists in history, and is much the reason why America is ostensibly a two party system. Even if the regional divide is not as hard and fast as it once was, even if the matters in which they differ change radically over time, the divide itself will always persist. It's wrapped up in the pre-revolutionary context the country was founded on. America will always be two countries in a trenchcoat, two echoes of wildly different cultures set against each other for dominance. You should always be keen to remember that. The union isn't of 13 distinct colonies, but two distinct cultures always in tension. It's a fundamental structure within our larger cultural blueprint.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#198

Post by anal_reactor »

xp84 wrote: post #179

From the article, the current flavor of "threat" this is being positioned to fight is CSAM. Does anyone believe that predators commit those heinous offenses because of the availability of encrypted channels to distribute those products of their crimes? I sure don't. The materials exist because of predators' access to children, which these surveillance measures won't solve. Best case scenario (and this is wildly optim…

That's not a bug, that's a feature. They'll say that current surveillance tools are insufficient, and demand more.

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#199

Post by nikkwong »

matthewdgreen wrote: post #186
nikkwong wrote: post #151

Imagine a future where it becomes easier to commit terrorism because of some technological advancements—like smaller, less traceable bombs, or chemical weapons that are easily accessible and lead to higher casualties—like in the 1,000s or more. Imagine in that scenario, that the likelihood of you or someone you know becoming the victim of a terrorist attack is now non-trivial in your society. In a future where this b…

>Imagine a future where it becomes easier to commit terrorism because of some technological advancements Imagine a future where aliens invade, and all of our civil rights have to be suspended in order for society to be re-focused on fighting an existential war against the invaders. I suppose this sci-fi hypothetical could happen and if it did happen then the sacrifice might even be necessary. But it's not happening n…

I don’t know if it’s complete fearmongering to imagine a scenario in the future where chemical or biological weapons are easier to manufacture and therefore execute attacks. Hundreds of people died in Europe last year due to terrorist attacks, and compared to where our species will eventually be, many of the technologies used in these attacks are still in their infancy. The world may evolve, but the scriptures that evangelize future jihadists won’t, so the incentive to be a martyr will always exist. I just looked it up and Europe has a very bad track record at stopping attacks—of 54 planned terrorist attacks in 2024 only 19 were averted by intelligence. 35 were carried out successfully. The threat may come from factions other than just jihadists in the future, too. I agree that this is not something we have to worry about now, which is why I stated that I’m hypothesizing in the original comment. But I think it’s a bit less far fetched than a near term alien invasion :-)

Re: ChatControl: EU wants to scan all private messages, even in encrypted apps

#200

Post by dekken_ »

xp84 wrote: post #179

From the article, the current flavor of "threat" this is being positioned to fight is CSAM. Does anyone believe that predators commit those heinous offenses because of the availability of encrypted channels to distribute those products of their crimes? I sure don't. The materials exist because of predators' access to children, which these surveillance measures won't solve. Best case scenario (and this is wildly optim…

Absolutely, evidence of abuse is secondary to the actual abuse.

Plus, the fact you could use/make AI/LLM/etc generate nefarious content that is hard to tell is fake, tells you the abuse isn't even what they are interested in.

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