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Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

ftc.gov

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Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#51

Post by dade_ »

andy99 wrote: post #22
crazygringo wrote: post #13

> harmed by their deceptive Prime enrollment practices I'm still confused by this part. I didn't use Prime for a long time. I remember lots of buttons inviting me to sign up, just like YouTube asks me weekly if I want to subscribe to premium. But I don't remember anything seemingly deceptive, and none of the news articles seem to actually provide any details. So what precisely was deceptive? And even the cancellation…

It's pretty heavily dark patterned for me. When you go checkout there is a big prime banner inviting you to click now that looks the the default "next screen" button, and smaller fainter text below saying "continue without enjoying prime benefits". Something similar happens again with the shipping. I only ever buy enough to get free shipping, but it never defaults to that, it tries to trick you by defaulting to paid,…

And, as noted in the article, it still wrongfully states decline Prime and pay for shipping despite shipping already being free if you are willing to wait for delayed shipping.

Since I cancelled Prime, I have saved a fortune in addition to my $100. Not just on Amazon, but period. Super convenient and fast resulted in me buying more, now I am just buying much less stuff, make fewer orders less often. even waiting to go to a store I figure out a way to solve a problem without buying anything, and sometimes to need goes away.

I guess I have Trump to thank for it, never would have cancelled Prime if it wasn't for the US boycott.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#52

Post by ascagnel_ »

robotnikman wrote: post #46
jkestner wrote: post #42

Amazon is bad, but as others note, it’s insultingly transparent more than anything. But the worst in my recent history is Duolingo. Constant pestering to upgrade your subscription, fine, but once you do, it frequently “forgets” the subscription (through the App Store) and goes back to nagging you, only fixed by digging a few screens into the profile and tapping “restore purchases”. Bigger issue when your family is us…

It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying. If anyone has any recommended alternatives where I can learn Japanese I'm interested. Despite all the crap Duolingo has, it has been very convenient when it co…

> It keeps nagging me to upgrade to the family plan or plus or whatever. And if I ignore it enough it enrolls me in a free trial of the family plan without me even asking every once it a while. The amount of up-selling they try to push on you now is so annoying.

Is this through their own storefront, or through a mobile storefront (Apple/Google)? While it's bad either way, Apple and Google specific styling around their subscription confirmation prompts, so I hope they haven't circumvented those somehow.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#53

Post by packetlost »

whatamidoingyo wrote: post #36

A few years ago, I got a new phone and a new number. I eventually went to Amazon, entered password, and then was prompted for the OTP, which was sent to my previous number (which I no longer had access to). I kept trying things until I was completely locked out of the account. I emailed them, no help. So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I…

lol you think they're going to actively put any effort towards something that isn't legally required and loses them money? Nah, there's no way they're going to implement that. I hope you issued chargebacks on your card for those charges.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#54

Post by gdulli »

JCM9 wrote: post #34

Generally a fan of Prime. I’ll admit the shipping is pretty addictive. The rest of Prime is pretty meh. It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. On both .com and AWS, Amazon is reaching a stage of maturity where they’re running out of new customers. While still a fan of both, they’re both getting annoying as innovation slows and they get more annoying with a focus on doing t…

> I’ll admit the shipping is pretty addictive. The rest of Prime is pretty meh. It’s a good deal on shipping

It's not a good deal on shipping because shipping can be had for free without Prime for $25 or $35 orders. It's a paid course where they train you to be an impulse buy addict.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#55

Post by BeetleB »

prasadjoglekar wrote: post #43
crazygringo wrote: post #13

> harmed by their deceptive Prime enrollment practices I'm still confused by this part. I didn't use Prime for a long time. I remember lots of buttons inviting me to sign up, just like YouTube asks me weekly if I want to subscribe to premium. But I don't remember anything seemingly deceptive, and none of the news articles seem to actually provide any details. So what precisely was deceptive? And even the cancellation…

You should read the original complaint. It alleged that Amazon made is really easy to inadvertently sign up for Prime, but much more difficult to cancel. See the PDF below and the screenshots that has. Upon filing of the complaint, Amazon removed these dark workflows quickly. https://deadline.com/wp-content/uploads/2023/06/FTC-Amazon-c...

For ending membership, start on page 44:

> Clicking the link did not end Prime membership. Instead, it took the consumer to another page with a heading that read: “End Your Amazon Prime Membership.” The page contained a button labelled “End Your Prime Membership.” Pressing the button did not end Prime Membership.

...

> Once consumers reached the Iliad Flow, they had to proceed through its entirety—spanning three pages, each of which presented consumers several options, beyond the Prime Central page—to cancel Prime.

...

> Also, on page one of the Iliad Flow, Amazon presented consumers with three buttons at the bottom. “Remind Me Later,” the button on the left, sent the consumer a reminder three days before their Prime membership renews ... “Keep My Benefits,” on the right, also took the consumer out of the Iliad Flow without cancelling Prime. Finally, “Continue to Cancel,” in the middle, also did not cancel Prime but instead proceeded to the second page of the Iliad Flow.

> Finally, at the bottom of Iliad Flow page two, Amazon presented consumers with buttons offering the same three options as the first page: “Remind Me Later,” “Continue to Cancel,” and “Keep My Membership” (labelled “Keep My Benefits” on the first page). See Attachment Q, at 4. Once again, consumers could not cancel their Prime subscription on the second page of the Iliad Flow. Choosing either “Remind Me Later” or “Keep My Membership” took the consumer out of the Iliad Flow without cancelling. Consumers had to click “Continue to Cancel” to access the third page of the Iliad Flow.

...

> Therefore, to complete the Iliad Flow and cancel a Prime membership, the consumer needed to click a minimum of six times from Amazon.com: Prime Central -> “Manage Membership” -> “End Membership” -> “Continue to Cancel” -> “Continue to Cancel” -> “End Now.”

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#56

Post by [deleted] »

crazygringo wrote: post #13

> harmed by their deceptive Prime enrollment practices I'm still confused by this part. I didn't use Prime for a long time. I remember lots of buttons inviting me to sign up, just like YouTube asks me weekly if I want to subscribe to premium. But I don't remember anything seemingly deceptive, and none of the news articles seem to actually provide any details. So what precisely was deceptive? And even the cancellation…

[deleted]

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#57

Post by Towaway69 »

rubiquity wrote: post #31
WillPostForFood wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is two screens, three clicks - not hard at all. https://www.amazon.com/mm/pipeline/cancellation https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ddxPcnMG0fE

It should be one click.

It’s one click buy and three click “unbuy”. Strange that the latter hasn’t yet been patented - perhaps the click count isn’t done yet.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#58

Post by TrainedMonkey »

whatamidoingyo wrote: post #36

A few years ago, I got a new phone and a new number. I eventually went to Amazon, entered password, and then was prompted for the OTP, which was sent to my previous number (which I no longer had access to). I kept trying things until I was completely locked out of the account. I emailed them, no help. So, while being locked out of my account, I couldn't cancel my subscription to Kindle (lost all of the books, too). I…

Did the situation get resolved or are you still being charged? I need a resolution here STAT!

In my personal experience, Amazon has an acceptable customer support when compared to Google, but nobody with that type of scale can even touch Apple's support experience.

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#59

Post by toast0 »

phil21 wrote: post #50
toast0 wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s a good deal on shipping and then a bunch of second-rate other stuff tacked on. It is and it isn't. The cost of shipping is built into the price of most of the items. You get a good deal if you buy things where pricing is more or less fixed, or if you buy things one at a time, but if you purchase several items at the same time, you can often save money if you purchase from a vendor that has better unit prices a…

It’s exceedingly rare for a vendor to be cheaper on shipping (and in total) than Amazon is for me. Especially if you consider shipping speed and return hassle/expense. Really depends on what you buy, but about half the time I buy from a vendor direct I end up regretting it if I’m in a hurry or not 100% certain of the product before ordering.

Here's an example from my recent life:

Buying a 6-pack of pinballs. Amazon is $17, shipping included with prime [1], Marco is $10 + $13 shipping [2]. Amazon wins, but if you also need some 555 bulbs, Amazon is $5 for ten [3], and Marco is $2.25, shipping stays at $13.

One pack of pinballs and one pack of bulbs is $22 or $25.25, but one pack of pinballs and three packs of bulbs is $32 at amazon vs $30 at Marco.

Time to arrive varies, but Amazon is quoting me a week for the pinballs at the moment, and Marco got me my last order in a week. Also, I have no doubts about Marco's supply chain.

I see similar things when ordering parts for my midlife crisis car. There's a couple things where it is better to get parts on Amazon, but most things it makes more sense to go to a niche specific site or a car parts vendor.

[1] https://www.amazon.com/Ball-Baron-Polaris-Non-Magnetic-Pinba... [2] https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/PB116-6 [3] https://www.amazon.com/CEC-Industries-Bulbs-W2-1x9-5d-T-3-25... [4] https://www.marcospecialties.com/pinball-parts/165-5002-00

Re: Amazon fined $2.5B for using deceptive methods to sign up consumers for Prime

#60

Post by delecti »

citizenpaul wrote: post #12
Larrikin wrote: post #3

Is this one of those situations where we sign up and get a bit of money from the company, or will we have already been contacted?

My guess is 95%+ of the restitution will be in the form of a free year of Amazon prime. I'm pretty cynical though.

It explicitly says "refunds" in TFA.

> Amazon will be required to pay a $1 billion civil penalty, provide $1.5 billion in refunds back to consumers [...]

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