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RTO: WTAF

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Re: RTO: WTAF

#31

Post by 000ooo000 »

EmilStenstrom wrote: post #18

Sigh This debate has been going on for years now. Remote is good for: People who work alone & People that don't like commuting Remote is bad for: People who work together with other people & People who like socializing IRL (including managers) Too many developers think they are working alone, while in fact they are part of a team and they would be better off working closer to that team.

>Too many developers think they are working alone, while in fact they are part of a team and they would be better off working closer to that team.

Sounds like you think software development is like one of those stock photos with 8 people smiling and high-fiving around a whiteboard. Devs are (mostly) nerds. Nerds have been collaborating in the online world for decades. They somehow managed to achieve things and build genuine friendships without ever being crammed into an open office - crazy but true. Everytime I hear someone say/suggest "dev needs to happen in person", all I can picture is a PHB.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#32

Post by exitb »

pjmlp wrote: post #4

And the worse of all, is that in most cases the work is exactly the same, and there is no collaboration on the office, because the team is geographically distributed anyway, so the only thing changing are the location of the video calls, and with whom to chat during coffee breaks.

Exactly, before covid, I don't think I ever saw any serious efforts to shuffle team assignments to have them more geographically segregated. But now it's all about in-person collaboration for some reason.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#33

Post by 5350-uiop-1130 »

> You will cause untold mental, physical and financial upheaval for many employees who now have to spend money on commuting, childcare, pet care, to name but a few.

as if they care.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#34

Post by luaybs »

birdalbrocum wrote: post #21

What RTO and WTAF means? Who knows. I clicked on link to find out but looks like website blogs my IP range. I will never know this important information..

Return to Office. What the Actual F***.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#35

Post by aeze »

EmilStenstrom wrote: post #18

Sigh This debate has been going on for years now. Remote is good for: People who work alone & People that don't like commuting Remote is bad for: People who work together with other people & People who like socializing IRL (including managers) Too many developers think they are working alone, while in fact they are part of a team and they would be better off working closer to that team.

I work together with my team and I socialize IRL with friends, family, or sometimes coworkers essentially every day of the week. I’ve been fully remote since 2018. Your comment makes no sense to me.

Also, likes commuting? You can listen to your podcast anywhere.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#36

Post by gruez »

mft_ wrote: post #13

I think there are three alternative hypotheses the article misses from its list: * Ego: senior people need to be seen and respected in person; being reduced to equally-sized thumbnail videos on Teams doesn't feed this need. * Real estate: some companies have financial commitments (e.g. long-term leases, owned buildings) to large office buildings which need to be justified; selling or ending the lease early might refl…

>selling or ending the lease early might reflect badly on leadership.

Why? If the lease was signed before the pandemic that gives a very easy "out". It's not like anyone could have predicted the pandemic and the associated shift to WFH. If for whatever reason they signed afterwards, that's just them being dumb.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#37

Post by [deleted] »

gabesullice wrote: post #9

I'm genuinely interested in why RTO is trending. I searched Harvard Business Review, Gartner, and other sources just last week trying to find the rationale, but I wasn't successful. In fact, I found those sources to be a little cautionary. E.g., they say "if you do switch to in-office or hybrid, make sure you actually have metrics to evaluate the effects" and "ensure it makes sense for the actual work to be done by e…

[deleted]

Re: RTO: WTAF

#38

Post by olex »

pjmlp wrote: post #4

And the worse of all, is that in most cases the work is exactly the same, and there is no collaboration on the office, because the team is geographically distributed anyway, so the only thing changing are the location of the video calls, and with whom to chat during coffee breaks.

This is a thing I've been constantly bringing up with our company. I _do_ think that local collaboration in the office is vastly more effective than remotely, _but_ only given that the entire team is co-located.

As soon as there are any remote members involved, the local collaboration benefits are lost, and a mixed team becomes less effective than a fully-remote one - because few offices offer the necessary space and equipment for large groups of people to participate in remote / hybrid meetings and work groups effectively (most / almost all existing conference room equipment is complete junk). Unfortunately, fully co-located teams appear to be a thing of the past, and as you say, mandates aren't going to help here.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#39

Post by progbits »

MarcelOlsz wrote: post #11
gabesullice wrote: post #9

I'm genuinely interested in why RTO is trending. I searched Harvard Business Review, Gartner, and other sources just last week trying to find the rationale, but I wasn't successful. In fact, I found those sources to be a little cautionary. E.g., they say "if you do switch to in-office or hybrid, make sure you actually have metrics to evaluate the effects" and "ensure it makes sense for the actual work to be done by e…

It's a lazy and cowardly way to get people to cull themselves and save money on severance packages. It's not that deep.

It's also a dumb strategy because the good people will easily find another job and leave and you end up with office full of the least competent employees.

But yes I'm pretty sure this is a big part of the reason for these mandates.

Re: RTO: WTAF

#40

Post by badgersnake »

interpol_p wrote: post #8

We have some sort of hybrid policy. Every single time I have showed up at the office, I either end up socialising far too much and get nothing done (I find it extremely hard to work next to people without talking to them). Or nobody is there and I end up having driven (40 minutes each way) to the office to have Teams meetings with a wonderful view of the car park, under fluorescent lights, using a cheap low-resolutio…

> socialising far too much and get nothing done

Alternatively, you networked, built useful relationships and shared knowledge.

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