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Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

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Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#51

Post by jashmota »

AlotOfReading wrote: post #50
jashmota wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I think about this - we should not have multi screens. Human field of vision is 60 degrees for central and about 120 degrees binocular. The bucket of the excavator is way narrower than this which means actual task doesn't require wide vision. So if we are able to have really good autonomous safety layers to ensure safe movements, and dynamically resize remote teleop windows, you'd make the operator more effic…

Just a suggestion from someone who's worked on industrial robots and autonomous vehicles, but I think you're underselling a lot of difficulties here. Skilled humans have a tendency to fully engage all of their senses during a task. For example, human drivers use their entire field of vision at night even though headlights only illuminate tiny portions of their FoV. I've never operated an excavator, but I would be ver…

I definitely agree with you - recreating the scene in teleop is challenging. In excavators, however, it does make it better. An excavator has huge blindspots on the right (due to arm), to the back and sometime near the bucket. Hence the workers who are hired to stand around (banksmen, spotters, signalmen) and signal to the operator.

It's like driving a Ford F150 without backup camera. You'd add the backup camera upfront, and not display the back view at the back window.

It's definitely challenging and we're far from something that's perfect. We're iterating towards something that's better everyday.

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#53

Post by AlotOfReading »

jashmota wrote: post #51
AlotOfReading wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just a suggestion from someone who's worked on industrial robots and autonomous vehicles, but I think you're underselling a lot of difficulties here. Skilled humans have a tendency to fully engage all of their senses during a task. For example, human drivers use their entire field of vision at night even though headlights only illuminate tiny portions of their FoV. I've never operated an excavator, but I would be ver…

I definitely agree with you - recreating the scene in teleop is challenging. In excavators, however, it does make it better. An excavator has huge blindspots on the right (due to arm), to the back and sometime near the bucket. Hence the workers who are hired to stand around (banksmen, spotters, signalmen) and signal to the operator. It's like driving a Ford F150 without backup camera. You'd add the backup camera upfr…

Yeah, it sounds like a fun challenge. Hope you have lots of success tackling it

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#54

Post by seabrookmx »

cyberax wrote: post #37
jeffbee wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My car with its drive-by-wire brakes has a brake feedback simulator that gives the driver the kind of feeling associated with power-boosted hydraulic brakes. This is by far the most expensive single component in the car. Arguably these are just expensive accommodations for human flaws. A self-driving car wouldn't need them. Can't the self-driving system act directly on data like pressure, flow, and displacement?

There are no drive-by-wire brakes in the US or Europe for regular cars. Your car's actuator moves the piston that is mechanically linked to your pedal. So even if the electric system fails completely, you can still actuate the brakes.

It depends on how you define brake by wire, but the one I'm referencing is the C8 Corvette and it's "eBoost" system. This isn't a purely electronic system like throttle by wire is, but it does mean there is no longer a linear relationship between pedal pressure and brake pad pressure. And my point about isolating the driver from feedback still holds true.

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#55

Post by roamerz »

jashmota wrote: post #47
roamerz wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a 20 ton Takeuchi and I don’t recall any feedback in the controls at all. The feedback I use is from the seat and sounds of the machine - well besides of course visual of course. I cannot imagine this being useful to me unless the virtual operators cab closely mimicked an actual machine. It would have to have audio from the machine and be on a platform that tilted relative to the real thing. It would also need…

The way I think about this - we should not have multi screens. Human field of vision is 60 degrees for central and about 120 degrees binocular. The bucket of the excavator is way narrower than this which means actual task doesn't require wide vision. So if we are able to have really good autonomous safety layers to ensure safe movements, and dynamically resize remote teleop windows, you'd make the operator more effic…

Well sure if you are just looking at where the bucket is digging but there is often a dump truck sitting on either your right or left flank waiting for what’s in your bucket (don’t forget the beep button lol). Having a monitor to either side duplicates what you are seeing out of your peripheral vision when operating the real thing. Would make transitioning from real to virtual much easier and imho safer.

Yes that is precisely why - makes for a much more versatile machine. TB180FR - it’s med-small, about 10 ton.

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#56

Post by jashmota »

roamerz wrote: post #55
jashmota wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The way I think about this - we should not have multi screens. Human field of vision is 60 degrees for central and about 120 degrees binocular. The bucket of the excavator is way narrower than this which means actual task doesn't require wide vision. So if we are able to have really good autonomous safety layers to ensure safe movements, and dynamically resize remote teleop windows, you'd make the operator more effic…

Well sure if you are just looking at where the bucket is digging but there is often a dump truck sitting on either your right or left flank waiting for what’s in your bucket (don’t forget the beep button lol). Having a monitor to either side duplicates what you are seeing out of your peripheral vision when operating the real thing. Would make transitioning from real to virtual much easier and imho safer. Yes that is…

I think swinging (which is about 40% of dig and dump workflow by time spent) should not be manual. That's lowest levels of autonomy which requires roughly centering to the pit/truck which we have already achieved. Hence operator only has to look in front!

Those workflow numbers come from multiple observations at different sites, one of the examples is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orEsvu1CS64

I wish to talk to you because it's rare sight someone has a Takeuchi - is there a way to connect? My email is contact at useflywheel dot ai

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#57

Post by roamerz »

jashmota wrote: post #56
roamerz wrote: post #55

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well sure if you are just looking at where the bucket is digging but there is often a dump truck sitting on either your right or left flank waiting for what’s in your bucket (don’t forget the beep button lol). Having a monitor to either side duplicates what you are seeing out of your peripheral vision when operating the real thing. Would make transitioning from real to virtual much easier and imho safer. Yes that is…

I think swinging (which is about 40% of dig and dump workflow by time spent) should not be manual. That's lowest levels of autonomy which requires roughly centering to the pit/truck which we have already achieved. Hence operator only has to look in front! Those workflow numbers come from multiple observations at different sites, one of the examples is this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=orEsvu1CS64 I wish to talk t…

>>I think swinging should not be manual.

I disagree and here's a couple of reasons why I say that:

1. What am I going to do with the time between releasing control and regaining it from the autonomous control?

2. In that break of workflow my first thought is it will cause a break in my concentration.

3. When I am swinging back from the truck to the trench the bucket is naturally in my control. It seems that in autonomy mode the transition from autonomous to my control would be very unnatural and choppy. I suppose with time it would be okay but man seems to violate the whole smooth is fast concept.

I'll shoot you an email.

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#58

Post by algo_trader »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #4

Would you be able to replicate this with the heavy equipment and movements needed to plug orphaned oil wells? In Texas alone, it's a TAM of ~$38B, and ~$150B for the entire US. The Looming Disaster Under America's Biggest Oil Field [video] - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45361022 - September 2025 Texas has thousands of abandoned oil and gas wells. Who is responsible for cleaning them up? - https://www.texastri…

> TAM of ~$38B, and ~$150B for the entire US.

Sigh. No. Actual TAM is $0 which is why these wells are orphaned

For contrast, maritime shipping IMO (my current obsession) has set a $100-$400 carbon price. So now the efuel market a realistic $10B ZNZ pot to aim at.

Re: Launch HN: Flywheel (YC S25) – Waymo for Excavators

#60

Post by aorloff »

I would create a bespoke training set from the very best operator you can find, after significant interviewing, and then only use that to train your model (eg. partner with a local firm that rents at Herc or United Rentals a lot and has a skilled operator and train on their jobs while you rent them free equipment).

The range of skillset on these things is large, there are 2 dominant (fairly swappable - meaning most machines do both) different operating modes (excavator / backhoe) and I see that operators have a specific one they are best with.

Honestly, when I see a real pro using one of these machines I think this is one area AI is not going to win at soon - in the real world there's a whole support crew working with the excavator operator

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