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Is life a form of computation?

thereader.mitpress.mit.edu

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Re: Is life a form of computation?

#11

Post by bgwalter »

rck wrote: post #10

This feels like the kind of popsci that's written for people who already agree with the author - there's nothing resembling an argument, or even a definition of "computation." There are nods to Church-Turing, but the leap from "every effectively calculable function is computable" to "life is a computation" is larger than anything you could fit in a book.

I felt reminded of Hofstadter's Goedel/Escher/Bach mysticism that somehow everything is recursion.

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#12

Post by bwfan123 »

there are criticisms of life as classical computation or in a more restricted context, cognition as computation [1] - one of which amounts to this: for any computation, there is a frame of reference in which that computation can be modeled, and if so, that frame of reference itself cannot be modeled by said computation.

[1] https://plato.stanford.edu/entries/computational-mind/#GodIn...

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#14

Post by anthk »

bgwalter wrote: post #11
rck wrote: post #10

This feels like the kind of popsci that's written for people who already agree with the author - there's nothing resembling an argument, or even a definition of "computation." There are nods to Church-Turing, but the leap from "every effectively calculable function is computable" to "life is a computation" is larger than anything you could fit in a book.

I felt reminded of Hofstadter's Goedel/Escher/Bach mysticism that somehow everything is recursion.

Self-simulation.

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#15

Post by mallowdram »

The basic parameters of affective neuroscience make it difficult to conflate actions with computations. Because there isn't a content to thought, thoughts aren't about things, brains/CNS/bodies lack any units that could be computed, there's only an arbitrary sleight of hand linking life and computation.

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#18

Post by nis0s »

I like the idea instead that some biological components have deterministic optimizations because they’re closer to a molecular form, like DNA, RNA, some protein machinery, etc. because essentially these are driven by some kind of chemistry and physics. Whereas higher level, emergent biological forms are more stochastic in their function, like organelles, an organism, or populations, etc. In that sense, there’s no computation to life, more that life is constrained by the physics of the world in which it develops.

It’s likely if different life forms on another planet, it will have a different “computation” model because its defined by different physics that it experiences during evolution. Though I suppose there will some similarities depending on some fundamental rules of the universe. Will propagation molecules like RNA or DNA always look like helixes, or will the radiation or physics of another planet create another form of propagation molecule we haven’t yet observed. Might make for an interesting experiment to simulate.

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#19

Post by lawlessone »

rck wrote: post #10

This feels like the kind of popsci that's written for people who already agree with the author - there's nothing resembling an argument, or even a definition of "computation." There are nods to Church-Turing, but the leap from "every effectively calculable function is computable" to "life is a computation" is larger than anything you could fit in a book.

> there's nothing resembling an argument, or even a definition of "computation."

"It's not even wrong" - Pauli

Re: Is life a form of computation?

#20

Post by measurablefunc »

karmakurtisaani wrote: post #9

I don't see the point of asking this question. Like, sure, all physical systems follow certain rules, so any such process will develop in a way that it look like a computation of an algorithm. Also, evolution itself is constantly optimizing organisms to best adapt to their environment, just like a computation. So asking if life is a computation seems mostly like a semantic musing. Define "life" and define "computatio…

Evolution is not optimizing anything. What's happening in the biosphere is a process of mutation & selection, it's not optimization towards any particular goal or objective. Furthermore & slightly more abstractly, b/c of conservation of mass & energy, what's actually happening is re-organization of existing biomass into different life forms enabled by solar radiation.
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