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Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

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21–30 of 186 posts

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#21
post #2

> The only problem is, previous studies estimated the warp drive would require a minimum amount of energy about equal to the mass-energy of the planet Jupiter. Uh, no. The "only problem" is that the concept relies on exotic matter, a hypothetical matter with 0 evidence for its existence (so far). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_matter

Well, the Casimir effect generates a tiny amount of negative energy, does it not? Maybe that's how they think they can test it in the lab.

There are places in physics where "negative mass" can briefly appear, but as I understand it, the quantity of such negative mass times the duration of the negative mass is a constant... and a very, very small constant to boot. It's a balancing term in QM interactions, not something you're ever going to hold in your hands.

As I like to say, assume one impossibility in physics, and it's not surprising that you get other impossibilities as a result. Unfortunately, in practical terms, requiring Jupiter sized amounts of stable negative mass and requiring "Voyager" sized amounts of stable negative mass do not appear to be appreciably different in difficulty, both being totally impossible.

I'd also point out that this article isn't even remotely unique. People have been tweaking the Alcubierre equations ever since they came out. Nobody has yet squeezed the "impossible" out of it, but each and every one of them has been accompanied by, well, basically this exact article. I support people trying to tweak them as a scientific Hail Mary, but I wish credulous science writers would stop writing these stories as if moving from "impossible" to "impossible" was some sort of huge step forward in practical terms.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#22
post #15
post #10

As much as it pains me to say this, but I think we have to invent some more advanced weapons before we start poking our heads out of our galaxy. Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic and I'm all tingly from excitement (this is the first time I've read about warp drives in the context of real science) ... but like I said, taking a stroll trough the galaxy with our bombs and finding a hostile alien world. Well we'd be…

Seeing how if we use our warp drives to 'colonize' space, other creatures would have far more to fear from us than we from them (think Independence day with roles reversed). If a space faring species encounters non-space faring species, the one with warp is probably (not necessary) in the better position. Even without the weapons, FTL drive implies a magnitudes greater technology than anything a non-FTL race would ha…

You're assuming the other species is non-spacegoing. It seems more likely to me, and at least hypothetically possible, that they've been in space as long or longer than us. And probably if you can bend space enough to make a warp drive, deflecting an incoming piece of matter isn't that hard.

But I agree we're more likely to end up at war with each other.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#23

How about we first build a space ship that travels anywhere near the speed of light?

This is all but a necessary step. If you work out the conventional rocket equations assuming a perfect translation of mass into momentum, to get to appreciable fractions of lightspeed still requires absurd amounts of propellants. At the moment we haven't even got a faint idea as to how we might obtain such total conversion. That's why there's so much interest in designs where you don't carry your fuel with you, like laser-driven solar sails and such.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#24
post #10

As much as it pains me to say this, but I think we have to invent some more advanced weapons before we start poking our heads out of our galaxy. Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic and I'm all tingly from excitement (this is the first time I've read about warp drives in the context of real science) ... but like I said, taking a stroll trough the galaxy with our bombs and finding a hostile alien world. Well we'd be…

There are a lot of challenges we have to overcome to travel to the stars, but this is certainly not one of them. What weapon system would be "good enough" anyway? A potential other civilization could be completely primitive, or it could have faster-than-light travel for millions of years by now.

To me it seems entirely absurd to consider this as one of the major problems.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#25
post #2

> The only problem is, previous studies estimated the warp drive would require a minimum amount of energy about equal to the mass-energy of the planet Jupiter. Uh, no. The "only problem" is that the concept relies on exotic matter, a hypothetical matter with 0 evidence for its existence (so far). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_matter

> Uh, no. The "only problem" is that the concept relies on exotic matter, a hypothetical matter with 0 evidence for its existence (so far). See http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exotic_matter

There are multiple routes here though. They could also find an "exotic spaceship" that already has a warp drive.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#26
post #15
post #10

As much as it pains me to say this, but I think we have to invent some more advanced weapons before we start poking our heads out of our galaxy. Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic and I'm all tingly from excitement (this is the first time I've read about warp drives in the context of real science) ... but like I said, taking a stroll trough the galaxy with our bombs and finding a hostile alien world. Well we'd be…

Seeing how if we use our warp drives to 'colonize' space, other creatures would have far more to fear from us than we from them (think Independence day with roles reversed). If a space faring species encounters non-space faring species, the one with warp is probably (not necessary) in the better position. Even without the weapons, FTL drive implies a magnitudes greater technology than anything a non-FTL race would ha…

It's very hard to aim and fire from a far distance, though.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#27
post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seeing how if we use our warp drives to 'colonize' space, other creatures would have far more to fear from us than we from them (think Independence day with roles reversed). If a space faring species encounters non-space faring species, the one with warp is probably (not necessary) in the better position. Even without the weapons, FTL drive implies a magnitudes greater technology than anything a non-FTL race would ha…

You're assuming the other species is non-spacegoing. It seems more likely to me, and at least hypothetically possible, that they've been in space as long or longer than us. And probably if you can bend space enough to make a warp drive, deflecting an incoming piece of matter isn't that hard. But I agree we're more likely to end up at war with each other.

> It seems more likely to me, and at least hypothetically possible, that they've been in space as long or longer than us.

Statistically, that's a near certainty. In the timeframes of galaxies and evolution, the chances that all the other intelligent species are also just a few hundred years into the industrial revolution is essentially zero.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#28
post #10

As much as it pains me to say this, but I think we have to invent some more advanced weapons before we start poking our heads out of our galaxy. Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic and I'm all tingly from excitement (this is the first time I've read about warp drives in the context of real science) ... but like I said, taking a stroll trough the galaxy with our bombs and finding a hostile alien world. Well we'd be…

1000 years is the blink of an eye compared to the lifetime of our galaxy or the amount of time it took life to evolve intelligence on Earth. There's no good reason to expect that humanity's age will be within 1000 years of an alien race's. Consider how little chance an army behind 1000 years technologically would stand against a modern army.

Computer strategy games (I'm specifically thinking of Master of Orion and Galactic Civilizations) often make the assumption that all the races that are going to come into contact with each other have the same technological starting point. This is for the good and simple reason of game balance: Nobody would want to play the game if one race started with a game-winningly huge technological advantage due to random luck.

Many other games and science fiction settings make a similar assumption: That alien and Terran technology are on roughly equal footing, because a situation where everyone has a fighting chance simply makes a better narrative.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#29
post #6

This appears to be the original paper: http://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/2011001... and follow up: http://www.icarusinterstellar.org/daydreaming-beyond-the-sol...

Another reminder of the internet's awesomeness: browse through the comments on the followup to see the original author answering reader questions.

Re: Warp Drive May Be More Feasible Than Thought, Scientists Say

#30
post #10

As much as it pains me to say this, but I think we have to invent some more advanced weapons before we start poking our heads out of our galaxy. Don't get me wrong, this is fantastic and I'm all tingly from excitement (this is the first time I've read about warp drives in the context of real science) ... but like I said, taking a stroll trough the galaxy with our bombs and finding a hostile alien world. Well we'd be…

If you have the engineering to handle the energy required to travel between stars, you can apply it to making weapons.
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