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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#181

Post by beeflet »

fpoling wrote: post #167
beeflet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have secure boot, hibernation, and full disk encryption working fine on linux, but I have never heard of kernel lockdown. The solution I found involves making a custom initramfs to support hibernation and compiling the kernel into a signed EFI stub.

Does the system use a boot loader? Or does it boot directly into kernel bypassing bootloaders?

It boots directly into the kernel without a bootloader. You can specify built-in command line options when you're compiling the kernel.

To dual-boot, I boot from a removable USB drive on my keychain. When it's not plugged in, it boots windows instead.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#182

Post by cptskippy »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31

As suggested in the blog post, the battery life issue is complex. You do need a CPU/SoC that’s efficient, and while Intel and AMD can do this it’s traditionally been a struggle for them. Next, the OS needs to be capable of taking full advantage of the chip’s efficiency. Windows could be decent here in, but Microsoft doesn’t believe in an operating system that’s ever truly idle (and neither do the third parties living…

> Most of the problems here come down to x86 laptops not implementing proper S3 sleep but only “modern standby”, which attempts to emulate the sleep mode that Apple uses that allows for emails to be fetched etc while in a near-sleep low-power state.

That's strange because when I close the lid on my Framework laptop it disables Wifi.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#183

Post by zer00eyz »

baq wrote: post #124
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I don’t need polished and superior, I need to get work done. I want the OS to get out of the way, not slow me down with animations, stage managers and pretty docks. I don’t even need customization, I just need it to stop trying to outdo itself and fall over. I’d run kde or even gnome on my work MacBook if it let me without a second thought. PS just installed ios 26 and what is this ? If this low contrast blobby windo…

> If this low contrast blobby window thing makes its way to the laptop I’ll be very, very not impressed.

You have quite a bit of control over all of these features. Dark mode, contrast controls...

There is a lot there you can tweak to have it look how you want and it stays that way through pretty much all upgrades.

> animations, stage managers and pretty docks.

You can turn all this off for the most part.

Spend as much time and effort customizing your Mac as you do customizing your Linux desktop and a lot of your laments will go away.

I use both often enough to know that linux on the desktop is a much steeper investment if you want it to work for you.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#184

Post by 999900000999 »

MostlyStable wrote: post #130
999900000999 wrote: post #87

I want to love framework, and I really do want to get behind their mission, but a few things stand out. First and this is the elephant in the room, it's probably better for the environment to buy a refurbished think pad. The most environmentally friendly product is one that gets reused instead of going to a landfill. The 13-in framework only offers one SSD slot, The expansion Bay offers a nice storage option but thes…

In order: Nothing is stopping you from buying a used Framework. Admittedly, the market is much smaller than for refurbished Thinkpads, but it's smaller on both sides (demand and supply), I found several both on Frameworks own community marketplace and on ebay. And considering the fact that after you buy the first one, you will re-use the chassis and other, non-mainboard components across at least a few upgrades, I ac…

The mainboard cost as much as a new laptop.

https://frame.work/products/mainboard-amd-ai300?v=FRANTE0009

AMD Ryzen™ AI 300 Series - Ryzen™ AI 9 HX 370

1000$

https://www.newegg.com/asus-vivobook-s14-14-0-non-touch-scre...

ASUS Vivobook S14 Laptop, Copilot+ PC AMD Ryzen AI 9 HX 370 32GB RAM 1TB SSD

1000$.

The pricing just isn't competitive imo. Plus PC laptops go on sale pretty often.

Except for Framework.

The issue IMO is a lack of scale. If Dell did this they could probably offer cheaper parts.

Plus the warranty options drive the price up, I can add a 200$ warranty on the above Asus and get 3 years.

1200$ vs 2000$ on the Amd 370 framework.

That said, I want Framework to succeed. It's good for the industry. It doesn't mean I'm personally ready to make the investment.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#185

Post by babypuncher »

jadenPete wrote: post #175

I really, really want an ARM laptop with great Linux support. It's very difficult to justify buying an non-M series laptop today, when the M series laptops outperform x86 laptops in battery life by such a wide margin. I'm sure some of that is because Apple controls their entire hardware and software stack and can optimize macOS for battery life, but it's hard not to believe that the processor architecture (i.e. x86)…

I think it's still up in the air whether a decent non-Apple laptop/desktop class ARM chip will come to market before Intel and/or AMD narrow the efficiency gap enough that the hassle won't be worth it.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#186

Post by samtheDamned »

victor9000 wrote: post #172

The best thing about owning a framework is that you can easily recover from silly events like spilling an entire latte on your laptop. I've done this twice so far and both times it cost me $99 to swap out the keyboard and get back to a stock look and feel.

I just got a framework 12 and the first day I set it up a latte spilled all over it and thankfully the keyboard survived but the peace of mind that, even if it wasn't, a replacement keyboard is $50 was/is so valuable.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#187

Post by fsckboy »

maverwa wrote: post #17

The complaint about power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops. Not sure if that’s what applies here, but the numbers about match what I see with my Framework. Basically: if you want to use secure boot you usually also want kernel lockdown mode, and you cannot hibernate a lockdowned kernel. At least not without out-of-tree patches. IMHO that’s a giant issue…

>power usage in suspend is especially sad because it’s pretty much a common problem for Linux on laptops

I don't know what you're talking about, is this an apple Silcon marketing ploy? my linux laptops lose less battery in suspend than my macbooks do powered down

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#188

Post by zdragnar »

ndiddy wrote: post #165
izacus wrote: post #58

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The thing is - a lot if power saving is achieved by hybrid sleep (computer hibernating after a timeout). Setting that up is pure hell on Linux, with poor documentation and security people actively fighting against making this easy. On Windows/macOS it just works, on Linux you'll probably break secure boot with it.

> On Windows/macOS it just works, on Linux you'll probably break secure boot with it. The way it works on my Windows laptop is it’ll stay in sleep overnight, then when I open the laptop in the morning it’ll wake up, then hibernate itself, then I have to wait for the computer to turn itself back on. Thankfully this feature can be turned off.

The way it works on mine is that I open it in the morning to find it powered off because it chose to force quit my running applications to apply updates.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#189

Post by Borealid »

fpoling wrote: post #167
beeflet wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have secure boot, hibernation, and full disk encryption working fine on linux, but I have never heard of kernel lockdown. The solution I found involves making a custom initramfs to support hibernation and compiling the kernel into a signed EFI stub.

Does the system use a boot loader? Or does it boot directly into kernel bypassing bootloaders?

The term to search for is "UKI".

A UKI is a kernel+initramfs+boot-arguments bundle all as a single WinPE/UEFI executable using the "EFI Stub Loader".

You configure your system firmware to execute it, passing no arguments. It boots using the command line you set earlier. It's signed, and verified by the platform secure boot.

Hibernation works fine with this approach.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#190

Post by Implicated »

worble wrote: post #170
GZGavinZhao wrote: post #157

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are often browser tabs and other documents windows I would like to keep openers and I want to jump back to exactly where I left off as soon as possible.

Let me preface this reply with that I'm not trying to preach or tell you how to live your digital life - everyone is different and if you have setup that works for you then great, keep on trucking. That said, I worked the same way many years ago, with browser tabs and desktop sessions that were precious and I didn't want to drop them. But what I ended up realizing was that the stress of losing that state due to rando…

While I understand your perspective here - let me counter with mine. I have the same issue where I maintain a 'state' that I'd prefer to maintain but my interest in maintaining it does have this anxiety you describe.

It's just a huge waste of time to get it all back. I see it no different than being in the middle of a heavy coding/mental task and being interrupted to the point that you have to 'start over' in the sense of getting all that context back in the right places.

Sure, I _could_ neatly close everything out and have a pristine perfect work/desktop environment. But, personally, when I see the work/desk environment of someone and it's absolutely pristine all I can think about is how they're spending energy to maintain that.

To give another example - in my workshop (woodworking), if I'm in the middle of something and need to take a break/leave the shop... I'm not putting _anything_ away. I turn off the lights and walk out. That way when I return I don't have to set everything back up. Now - when I finish something, then I go through and clean up and organize and get the state freshened up. Same thing with my laptop/computer.

Zero anxiety about it all - it's not about losing anything but time. And that's what's most important.

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