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I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

simonhartcher.com

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Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#121

Post by jakeydus »

trueismywork wrote: post #116
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I just got a work Mac and I have spent around 20 years now on linux before it. I was making a list compared to KDE (not pros/cons just differences) It is still a work in progress since its only a couple of days since im using it. 1. No delete button. I know you can do Fn delete but It is more problematic. And I do use delete often. 2. System keeps important system stuff in Library directory in home. Do not do remove…

To be fair a lot of these might be because OS X was unveiled in 2016 /s

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#122

Post by seabrookmx »

The article is pretty light on details. Whether the Framework is worth it to you really depends on your use case. I never leave a laptop in my bag for three weeks, and if I do I have the foresight to actually shut it down rather than sleep it. So the battery drain while sleeping is less of a problem for me.

My Framework 13 has the Ryzen 5 AI 340 Chip, and I get 5-6 hours of work on a charge. The Macbooks definitely beat this, and their hardware has other benefits (silent if you opt for the Air, bigger/better trackpad, etc) but for me, being able to run Linux is worth the trade-off by far.

I like that on Linux (GNOME) I have all the functionality I need out of the box without having to install a paid app for window snapping (I heard they fixed this recently?) or to make my mouse buttons work. I also find that since I work with containers a lot, developing on Linux removes a lot of friction. I can run docker/containerd natively without having to babysit a VM that likes to eat all my RAM or hang randomly (no docker/rancher desktop layer). Even just having the same coreutils and package managers as I do inside the containers really simplifies things. Our MacOS devs are always struggling with homebrew putting shared libraries weird places that can't be found by the python bindings and this "just works" on Linux.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#123

Post by stratosmacker »

joshstrange wrote: post #104
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #31

As suggested in the blog post, the battery life issue is complex. You do need a CPU/SoC that’s efficient, and while Intel and AMD can do this it’s traditionally been a struggle for them. Next, the OS needs to be capable of taking full advantage of the chip’s efficiency. Windows could be decent here in, but Microsoft doesn’t believe in an operating system that’s ever truly idle (and neither do the third parties living…

> It’s possible for x86 machines to manage this state correctly, as proven by Valve’s Steam Deck which can be put to sleep and drain its battery slowly enough to stay alive for a week or more. I had the original Steam Deck and the OLED Steam Deck and neither of them would hold a charge past a day or so. It's a constant annoyance for me as I don't want to leave it plugged in 24/7 but if I don't, it won't be ready to g…

Hey fyi and for posterity, on SteamDeck I have the same issue and the cause is the same as outlined above (modern standby). I would love to hear more from folks who don't have this out of the box.

The fix is simple but I have to wonder why it's not set by default

https://github.com/nazar256/publications/blob/main/guides/st...

Ideally the Steamdeck would come with hibernation after timeout and FDE enabled by default, but it doesn't. Still love it, and I'm glad/grateful it's open enough to enable these features on my own

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#124

Post by baq »

didacusc wrote: post #22
cardanome wrote: post #8

As a Linux user I feel you. The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world (for power users) but the hardware is so, so good. For me it is about having a completely silent setup. It is so, so hard to go back to noisy fans. I really hope Asahi Linux keep going so I can have the best of both worlds.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

I don’t need polished and superior, I need to get work done. I want the OS to get out of the way, not slow me down with animations, stage managers and pretty docks. I don’t even need customization, I just need it to stop trying to outdo itself and fall over.

I’d run kde or even gnome on my work MacBook if it let me without a second thought.

PS just installed ios 26 and what is this? If this low contrast blobby window thing makes its way to the laptop I’ll be very, very not impressed.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#125

Post by GuinansEyebrows »

cardanome wrote: post #50
didacusc wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Saying that the macOS desktop is vastly inferior to Linux desktops is absolutely nuts. I've tried to get my relatives on Linux desktops so many times, just for it to go completely wrong a couple of weeks after and having to reinstall Windows. It's just not made for average (or below-average) users, so I don't see how it can be VASTLY inferior to something as easy and polished as macOS.

[flagged]

hey, i don't know if you've considered it, but this comes across as a pretty unnecessarily-insulting way to state a personal preference.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#126

Post by lynndotpy »

torstenvl wrote: post #120
lynndotpy wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But why are we comparing vanilla macOS to an extreme customized Linux setup as if they’re the same thing? Your assumption that these Linux setups are "extremely customized" is wrong. Personally, I hate configuring or customizing much at all. The appeal of Linux is that there are distros that come configured out-of-the-box pretty much as I like it, whereas MacOS and especially Windows requires configuration and cons…

What makes you say it isn't an option? defaults write com.apple.finder DisableAllAnimations -bool true

Because there is no option to disable all animations. Despite the name, that doesn't disable all animations. (In fact, I couldn't even find an animation that does remove.)

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#127

Post by carlosjobim »

dmm wrote: post #83
Aurornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world I have to use Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops in my work. They all have their pros and cons, but I can’t say I’d ever argue that the Mac desktop experience is vastly inferior to the Linux desktop experience. Edit: Getting a lot of downvotes but most of the comments are about someone’s highly customized Linux desktop compared to completely vanilla Mac desktop. I…

On a Mac, you can switch between apps with Command-Tab or windows of the same app with Command-` but there's no way to cycle between all windows or bounce between to two most recently used windows. Maybe this used to make sense when apps were single purpose but I do basically everything in a web browser or a terminal so not being able to bounce between the previously selected window(of whatever kind), as I can with A…

> I do basically everything in a web browser

Then you are deliberately handicapping yourself, this isn't something you can blame on the OS. It's like complaining that a car has bad fuel economy because you always stay in first gear.

As for the displays, you are comparing apples to oranges. You can get a high DPI monitor which is smaller than 32 inches for cheap. Which is plenty of screen for the distances where DPI differences are important.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#128

Post by joshstrange »

stratosmacker wrote: post #123
joshstrange wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s possible for x86 machines to manage this state correctly, as proven by Valve’s Steam Deck which can be put to sleep and drain its battery slowly enough to stay alive for a week or more. I had the original Steam Deck and the OLED Steam Deck and neither of them would hold a charge past a day or so. It's a constant annoyance for me as I don't want to leave it plugged in 24/7 but if I don't, it won't be ready to g…

Hey fyi and for posterity, on SteamDeck I have the same issue and the cause is the same as outlined above (modern standby). I would love to hear more from folks who don't have this out of the box. The fix is simple but I have to wonder why it's not set by default https://github.com/nazar256/publications/blob/main/guides/st... Ideally the Steamdeck would come with hibernation after timeout and FDE enabled by default,…

Thank you for that link!

And yes, I'm surprised they don't do something like this out of the box. I really love my Steam Deck overall and I agree, the ability to tweak and enable these features really make it an amazing product. Especially in comparison to my Switch 2 which is great but 100% locked down.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#129

Post by baq »

dmm wrote: post #83
Aurornis wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The Mac Desktop is vastly inferior to the Linux world I have to use Mac, Linux, and Windows desktops in my work. They all have their pros and cons, but I can’t say I’d ever argue that the Mac desktop experience is vastly inferior to the Linux desktop experience. Edit: Getting a lot of downvotes but most of the comments are about someone’s highly customized Linux desktop compared to completely vanilla Mac desktop. I…

On a Mac, you can switch between apps with Command-Tab or windows of the same app with Command-` but there's no way to cycle between all windows or bounce between to two most recently used windows. Maybe this used to make sense when apps were single purpose but I do basically everything in a web browser or a terminal so not being able to bounce between the previously selected window(of whatever kind), as I can with A…

Betterdisplay is $20 or so and solves the ppi problem for the most part.

It’s the dumbest thing apple has ever done and hats off to betterdisplay dev. Best money ever spent on a desktop tool easily.

Re: I'm spoiled by Apple Silicon but still love Framework

#130

Post by MostlyStable »

999900000999 wrote: post #87

I want to love framework, and I really do want to get behind their mission, but a few things stand out. First and this is the elephant in the room, it's probably better for the environment to buy a refurbished think pad. The most environmentally friendly product is one that gets reused instead of going to a landfill. The 13-in framework only offers one SSD slot, The expansion Bay offers a nice storage option but thes…

In order:

Nothing is stopping you from buying a used Framework. Admittedly, the market is much smaller than for refurbished Thinkpads, but it's smaller on both sides (demand and supply), I found several both on Frameworks own community marketplace and on ebay. And considering the fact that after you buy the first one, you will re-use the chassis and other, non-mainboard components across at least a few upgrades, I actually still think that a framework is the correct "environmental" decision. Plus, if I were to buy a used/refurbed Framework, I would be _supremely_ confident that if some sub-component of it came broken (or broke shortly after purchase), that I would be able to get the laptop as a whole up and running and not need to ewaste the whole thing.

Price-to-performance. This is true....the first time you buy the laptop. On subsquent upgrades, you are not paying the full price of the laptop, but only the mainaboard. Over a few upgrade cycles, the framework comes down _significantly_ in price. This is, in fact, close to the entire point of framework.

I can't speak to support. I have had no issues with my 16. I've heard stories in both directions (very good and very bad support). I guess I will say that it is reasonable to be more skeptical about the level of support one will receive from a new company wit a very small team.

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