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The death rays that guard life

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Re: The death rays that guard life

#31

Post by TSiege »

russdill wrote: post #28

This line gave me pause: "This happened despite murine norovirus being more resistant to far-UVC than many common human respiratory viruses, likely due to its tough protein outer ‘shell’.". Under wide spread use, would viruses simply mutate to being more resistant to far-UVC?

It’s certainly possible, but it might be that it’s very difficult for some organisms to evolve certain protections because adapting can reduce fitness in other ways. So maybe there is a barrier that would help it from UVC but perhaps that makes the virus less likely to bind at key sites and thus not able to replicate.

Re: The death rays that guard life

#32

Post by opwieurposiu »

russdill wrote: post #28

This line gave me pause: "This happened despite murine norovirus being more resistant to far-UVC than many common human respiratory viruses, likely due to its tough protein outer ‘shell’.". Under wide spread use, would viruses simply mutate to being more resistant to far-UVC?

The outdoor environment has lots of UV rays from the sun, so this selection pressure has existed for a long time.

Re: The death rays that guard life

#33

Post by russdill »

opwieurposiu wrote: post #32
russdill wrote: post #28

This line gave me pause: "This happened despite murine norovirus being more resistant to far-UVC than many common human respiratory viruses, likely due to its tough protein outer ‘shell’.". Under wide spread use, would viruses simply mutate to being more resistant to far-UVC?

The outdoor environment has lots of UV rays from the sun, so this selection pressure has existed for a long time.

Ah, thank you

Re: The death rays that guard life

#34

Post by throawayonthe »

russdill wrote: post #28

This line gave me pause: "This happened despite murine norovirus being more resistant to far-UVC than many common human respiratory viruses, likely due to its tough protein outer ‘shell’.". Under wide spread use, would viruses simply mutate to being more resistant to far-UVC?

the article goes on to say:

> Far-UVC is like an aerial disinfectant or bleach, except that it is harmless to humans at practical germicidal doses, and thus should not provoke resistance to its uptake. It does not alter pathogens in a way that allows resistance to emerge, a serious problem for antibiotics. Instead, it thoroughly damages microbial genomes at random, destroying bacteria and viruses alike, whether they are drug-resistant, vaccine-evasive, or indeed newly emerged.

Re: The death rays that guard life

#35

Post by rolandog »

cryzinger wrote: post #23
sailingparrot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if there is no dire second order consequences to raising kids 8h per days in a sterile environment (or more if you also adopt this setup at home). The immune system needs to be used in order to work properly. Unless we want a life where we cannot step outside of the range of our UV lamps.

Maybe fewer consequences than you'd think... https://rachel.fast.ai/posts/2024-08-13-crowds-vs-friends/ "Your Immune System is Not a Muscle" > Four main categories of pathogens that humans deal with are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. The evidence for pathogens that may be beneficial to the immune system is almost entirely for parasitic worms and friendly (commensal) bacteria. In contrast, many viruses can e…

I'm one of those that tries to jokingly correct the proponents of an often touted phrase by retorting "If it doesn't kill you, it makes you stranger".

Re: The death rays that guard life

#36

Post by manwe150 »

hvs wrote: post #15

So in our entirely sanitized and sterilized environments we would be free from airborne and waterborne disease, but the moment we step outside of it our underdeveloped immune systems would be incapable of fighting off the common cold? That seems like a bad idea.

That is what vaccines are for. All of the upsides of immune system training with none of the downsides of having to be sick first (also, see “the immune system is not a muscle” article other people posted: immune systems do not appear to generate cross-virus benefits, so there’d be no expected effect on common cold susceptibility)

Re: The death rays that guard life

#37

Post by boilerupnc »

This gives me great pause:

>Instead, it thoroughly damages microbial genomes at random, destroying bacteria and viruses alike, whether they are drug-resistant, vaccine-evasive, or indeed newly emerged.

A view which treats microbes and viruses into generalized buckets of 'good' or 'bad' is far too simplistic. It's interesting that there is no concern with a "random, destroying" action that avoids even a whiff of mention on impact to the vast benign or helpful biomes that would also be randomly destroyed.

Admittedly, I know very little in this space. However, I've formed an opinion that the complex interplay of these biomes has non-deterministic outcomes. Pathogenic microbe impacts could be as much a symptom/reflection of an imbalanced healthy ecosystem within the local environment versus a sudden "invasive" presence that needs destruction. It seems very reckless to indiscriminately torch a local environments microbe population without acknowledging that your well-intentioned efforts may be taking an imbalanced environment and making it even more imbalanced.

Re: The death rays that guard life

#38

Post by TrainedMonkey »

cryzinger wrote: post #23
sailingparrot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if there is no dire second order consequences to raising kids 8h per days in a sterile environment (or more if you also adopt this setup at home). The immune system needs to be used in order to work properly. Unless we want a life where we cannot step outside of the range of our UV lamps.

Maybe fewer consequences than you'd think... https://rachel.fast.ai/posts/2024-08-13-crowds-vs-friends/ "Your Immune System is Not a Muscle" > Four main categories of pathogens that humans deal with are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. The evidence for pathogens that may be beneficial to the immune system is almost entirely for parasitic worms and friendly (commensal) bacteria. In contrast, many viruses can e…

The anecdotic evidence they present of immune-system-is-not-a-muscle contradicts anecdotal evidence of doctors, nurses, kids who grew up in a dump, etc. never getting sick due to having amazing immune system.

Re: The death rays that guard life

#39

Post by ASalazarMX »

kiba wrote: post #26
cryzinger wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe fewer consequences than you'd think... https://rachel.fast.ai/posts/2024-08-13-crowds-vs-friends/ "Your Immune System is Not a Muscle" > Four main categories of pathogens that humans deal with are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. The evidence for pathogens that may be beneficial to the immune system is almost entirely for parasitic worms and friendly (commensal) bacteria. In contrast, many viruses can e…

The air outside is constantly sterilized by UV light.

Care to taste a spoonful of dirt in a sunny day to see how sterile it is?

Re: The death rays that guard life

#40

Post by ASalazarMX »

cryzinger wrote: post #23
sailingparrot wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I would be surprised if there is no dire second order consequences to raising kids 8h per days in a sterile environment (or more if you also adopt this setup at home). The immune system needs to be used in order to work properly. Unless we want a life where we cannot step outside of the range of our UV lamps.

Maybe fewer consequences than you'd think... https://rachel.fast.ai/posts/2024-08-13-crowds-vs-friends/ "Your Immune System is Not a Muscle" > Four main categories of pathogens that humans deal with are viruses, bacteria, fungi, and parasites. The evidence for pathogens that may be beneficial to the immune system is almost entirely for parasitic worms and friendly (commensal) bacteria. In contrast, many viruses can e…

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