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Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

blog.cloudflare.com

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Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#121

Post by leoc »

nemomarx wrote: post #68
leoc wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have to say, a single announcement that Cloudflare is sponsoring specifically these two projects does start to look a bit like an attempt to curry favour with the grassroots part of the tech right: give “their guys” some money and praise and maybe they’ll stay off Cloudflare’s back for a bit. And to be clear, that’s not to say that it’s bad to sponsor Ladybird, or maybe even Omarchy.

Is Ladybird a tech right thing?

I wouldn't describe it as such, but that's not what matters here. Andreas Kling has been out championing the anti-anti-Charlie-Kirk cause on Twitter, so it's a safe bet that the Lundukish grassroots anti-wokes see him as one of theirs. Whether he has any juice with the right-wing VC set I don't know.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#122

Post by boxed »

JeremyNT wrote: post #105
robinhood wrote: post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. As a normal user with a few sites, I'm glad they provide what they provide to block bots, attacks and everything AI.

> I don't understand why we always assume bad faith. I wish more companies were like Cloudflare actually - trying to balance the need of revenues while trying to do good for internet and open source as a whole. This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value. When VC money is flowing, you see things that look li…

> This is quite simple and history bears it out: you can't rely on a for-profit corporation to operate in any other manner than optimizing shareholder value.

You can't even do that honestly. Look at Boeing. It got taken over by know-nothing managers that followed that religion of shareholder value, and what did it do? Destroy shareholder value!

I think we should instead say "we can't rely on any institution to be stable over time". That's a much more sane statement imo.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#123

Post by jorvi »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87
vulcan01 wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Cloudflare supporting Ladybird makes sense for the same reasons that Valve invests in Proton. Cloudflare's job is easier if everyone standardizes on a few approved browsers, but right now the three major browser engines are controlled by Google (IIRC most of Mozilla's funding comes from Google) and Apple, just as Valve's Steam is heavily dependent on Microsoft's Windows. Both companies are basically hedging against f…

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

Google doesn't have control of Chromium though. The source is available and it is permissively licensed. If they did something truly onerous, Microsoft would fork it within hours and everyone would switch their upstream to Edgium.

The only reason Google calls the shots is because they pour billions of dollars into maintaining Chromium. The fact that they can do that (and even fund Firefox at the same time) is because of their ad monopoly. Same with search, Gmail, Translate, Maps. None of those things can exist without the ad monopoly funding it all.

Complaining about Chrome is barking up the wrong tree.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#124

Post by boxed »

robinhood wrote: post #83
femiagbabiaka wrote: post #35

I cannot for the life of me understand the Omarchy hype. The Linux community has been theming their distribution installs for decades. What distinguishes this from that?

The great strength of Omarchy is the fact that they've repackaged every good things from many different projects (arch, hyperland, and many packages) so I can install a fully functional distro with nice defaults, and every hardware working (bluetooth etc...), in less than 3 minutes without any interaction whatsoever. And it just works. Not because of Omarchy per se, but because they scripted the hell out of it so it…

Isn't that just Ubuntu?

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#125

Post by bstsb »

jorvi wrote: post #74
oefrha wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Responding to a dead comment from a banned account: > The big new game for them is AI crawler metering. Don’t think browser matters much anymore from their perspective. Truly open browsers are easy to spoof. Approved browsers with whatever attestation features they champion builtin are hard to spoof. So browsers do matter. Edit: authentication => attestation for accuracy.

Browser attestation doesn't really matter, its device attestation. Browser attestation is downstream from that. Google with SafetyNet attestation (whatever the hell its called these days) has pretty much locked down Android as tightly as iOS at this point. Hell, Apple device users already get to go in the internet "approved" fast lane because of attestation. iDevices and M-series Macbooks can send out a special respo…

i'd be surprised if it was actually illegal. "operating system" isn't a protected characteristic in law

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#127

Post by skybrian »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #118
skybrian wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven’t seen any signs that Apple will abandon Safari, have you? Also, a browser that uses Chromium could put a halt to Google’s plans if they wanted. The easiest way would be to stop upgrading and just port over security patches. (Sure, it brings progress to a halt, but this is unlikely to matter to web developers in the short run and it would get people’s attention.) They aren’t going to do this, though, so long…

If/when Apple is forced to start allowing Blink on iOS globally, all it takes is a hearty marketing push from Google and devs putting “best viewed in Chrome” badges on their sites for Safari’s marketshare (and with it, Apple’s influence) to plummet.

Given how AMP eventually died, it seems unlikely that web developers would go along with it. What’s in it for them?

Also, I don’t see any sign that Google even wants to do it? This is not really evidence-based reasoning, it’s just “I can imagine something evil that Google might do.”

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#128

Post by Perz1val »

boxed wrote: post #124
robinhood wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The great strength of Omarchy is the fact that they've repackaged every good things from many different projects (arch, hyperland, and many packages) so I can install a fully functional distro with nice defaults, and every hardware working (bluetooth etc...), in less than 3 minutes without any interaction whatsoever. And it just works. Not because of Omarchy per se, but because they scripted the hell out of it so it…

Isn't that just Ubuntu?

Yes, but ubuntu made stupid choices most developers don't agree with

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#129

Post by cosmic_cheese »

jorvi wrote: post #123
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To add to this, Apple’s share of the control is minimal and precarious. A timeline where Google is the sole web engine authority could easily become reality and is even likely. Hedging on a promising upstart makes a lot of sense.

Google doesn't have control of Chromium though. The source is available and it is permissively licensed. If they did something truly onerous, Microsoft would fork it within hours and everyone would switch their upstream to Edgium. The only reason Google calls the shots is because they pour billions of dollars into maintaining Chromium. The fact that they can do that (and even fund Firefox at the same time) is because…

Even if that’s true, are we going to see Google’s dominance in the ad space meaningfully curbed? It seems highly unlikely at best, and it doesn’t matter how loud any of us are barking (at least until there’s a massive shift in political headwinds).

Until that’s addressed, Chrome being dominant is a problem, because Google has created an “open moat” with their resource expenditure. Microsoft sure as hell isn’t going to be able to justify that kind of spend on their Chromium fork, and so their influence will never be of note.

Re: Cloudflare is sponsoring Ladybird and Omarchy

#130

Post by 0x000xca0xfe »

cosmic_cheese wrote: post #106
diath wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with Firefox is that the money has to go through Mozilla, and Mozilla is not spending most of that money on Firefox. You cannot sponsor the development of Firefox directly, so your money ends up being wasted.

Firefox/Gecko also just can’t be as relevant as a Chrome/Blink competitor since Gecko doesn’t support embedding on desktop operating systems, which precludes things like Electron-style wrapping and hybrid apps. It’s a fatal flaw that Mozilla doesn’t seem to have any interest in addressing.

Maybe that's why Servo got the boot?
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