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AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

elma.dev

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Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#241
post #60

The best code I've written with an LLM has been where I architect it, I guide the LLM through the scaffolding and initial proofs of different components, and then I guide it through adding features. Along the way it makes mistakes and I guide it through fixing them. Then when it is slow, I profile and guide it through optimizations. So in the end, it's code that I know very, very well. I could have written it but it…

My success and experience generally matches yours (and the authors'). Based on my experience over the last 6 months, nothing here around more senior developers getting more productivity and why is remotely controversial.

It's fascinating how a report like yours or theirs acts as a lightning rod for those who either haven't been able to work it out or have rigid mental models about how AI doesn't work and want to disprove the experience of those who choose to share their success.

A couple of points I'd add to these observations: Even if AI didn't speed anything up... even if it slowed me down by 20%, what I find is that the mental load of coding is reduced in a way that allows me to code for far more hours in a day. I can multitask, attend meetings, get 15 minutes to work on a coding task, and push it forward with minimal coding context reload tax.

Just the ability to context switch in and out of coding, combined with the reduced cognitive effort, would still increase my productivity because it allows me to code productively for many more hours per week with less mental fatigue.

But on top of that, I also antectodally experience the 2-5x speedup depending on the project. Occasionally things get difficult and maybe I only get a 1.2-1.5x speedup. But it's far easier to slot many more coding hours into the week as an experienced tech lead. I'm leaning far more on skills that are fast, intuitive abilities built up from natural talent and decades of experience: system design, technical design, design review, code review, sequencing dependencies, parsing and organizing work. Get all these things to a high degree of correctness and the coding goes much smoother, AI or no AI. AI gets me through all of these faster, outputs clear curated (by me) artifacts, and does the coding faster.

What doesn't get discussed enough is that effective AI-assisted coding has a very high skill ceiling, and there are meta-skills that make you better from the jump: knowing what you want while also having cognitive flexibility to admit when you're wrong; having that thing you want generally be pretty close to solid/decent/workable/correct (some mixture of good judgement & wisdom); communicating well; understanding the cognitive capabilities of humans and human-like entities; understanding what kind of work this particular human/human-like entity can and should do; understanding how to sequence and break down work; having a feel for what's right and wrong in design and code; having an instinct for well-formed requirements and being able to articulate why when they aren't well-formed and what is needed to make them well-formed.

These are medium and soft skills that often build up in experienced tech leads and senior developers. This is why it seems that experienced tech leads and senior developers embracing this technology are coming out of the gate with the most productivity gains.

I see the same thing with young developers who have a talent for system design, good people-reading skills, and communication. Those with cognitive flexibility and the ability to be creative in design, planning and parsing of work. This isn't your average developer, but those with these skills have much more initial success with AI whether they are young or old.

And when you have real success with AI, you get quite excited to build on that success. Momentum builds up which starts building those learning skill hours.

Do you need all these meta-skills to be successful with AI? No, but if you don't have many of them, it will take much longer to build sufficient skill in AI coding for it to gain momentum—unless we find the right general process that folks who don't have a natural talent for it can use to be successful.

There's a lot going on here with folks who take to AI coding and folks who dont. But it's not terribly surprising that it's the senior devs and old tech leads who tend to take to it faster.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#242

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could have written it but it would have taken me about 3x longer when all is said and done. Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself. Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not?

I am so tired of this style of "don't believe your lying eyes" conjecture. I'm a career coder and I used LLMs primarily to rapidly produce code for domains that I don't have deep experience in. Instead of spending days or weeks getting up to speed on an SDK I might need once, I have a pair programmer that doesn't check their phone or need to pick up their kids at 4:30pm. If you don't want to use LLMs, nobody is forci…

> If you don't want to use LLMs, nobody is forcing you. Burning energy trying to convince people to whom the benefits of LLMs are self-evident many times over that they are imagining things is insulting the intelligence of everyone in the conversation.

Hey man, I don't bother trying to convince them because it's just going to increase my job security.

Refusing to use LLMs or thinking they're bad is just FUD and it's the same as people that prefer to use nano/vim over an IDE or it's the same as people that say "hur dur cloud is just somebody else's computer"

It's best to ignore and just leave them in the dust.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#243
post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

which studies show this?

Here are some from the last few months: AI coding assistant trial: UK public sector findings report: https://www.gov.uk/government/publications/ai-coding-assista... - UK government. "GDS ran a trial of AI coding assistants (AICAs) across government from November 2024 to February 2025. [...] Trial participants saved an average of 56 minutes a working day when using AICAs" Human + AI in Accounting: Early Evidence from…

That was a treat to explore. All of those are based on self-assessment surveys or toy problems. The UK report reads:

> On average, users reported time savings of 56 minutes per working day [...] It is also possible that survey respondents overestimated time saved due to optimism bias.

Yet in conclusion, this self-reported figure is stated as an independently observed fact. When people without ADHD take stimulants they also self-report increased productivity, higher accuracy, and faster task completion but all objective measurements are negatively affected.

The OECD paper supports their programming-related findings with the following gems:

- A study that measures productivity by the time needed to implement a "hello world" of HTTP servers [27]

- A study that measures productivity by the number of lines of code produced [28]

- A study co-authored by Microsoft that measures productivity of Microsoft employees using Microsoft Copilot by the number of pull requests they create. Then the code is reviewed by their Microsoft coworkers and the quality of those PRs is judged by the acceptance rate of those PRs. Unbelievably, the code quality doesn't only remain the same, it goes up! [30]

- An inspirational pro-AI paper co-authored by GitHub and Microsoft that's "shining a light on the importance of AI" aimed at "managers and policy-makers". [31]

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#244

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could have written it but it would have taken me about 3x longer when all is said and done. Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself. Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not?

There was one study that said that in a specific setting and was amplified heavily on forums by anti-AI people. There have been many more studies showing productivity gains across a variety of tasks that preceded that one. That study wasn't necessarily wrong about the specific methodology they had for onboarding people to use AI. But if I remember correctly it was funded by an organization that was slightly skeptical…

If anyone actually reads the study they'll see that even the authors of that study admit LLMs will increase productivity and there's a lot more to come.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#245
post #60

The best code I've written with an LLM has been where I architect it, I guide the LLM through the scaffolding and initial proofs of different components, and then I guide it through adding features. Along the way it makes mistakes and I guide it through fixing them. Then when it is slow, I profile and guide it through optimizations. So in the end, it's code that I know very, very well. I could have written it but it…

I can see how this workflow made the senior developer faster. At the same time, work mentoring the AI strikes me as less valuable then the same time spent mentoring a junior developer. If this ends up encouraging an ever widening gap between the skill levels of juniors and seniors, I think that would be bad for the field, overall. Getting that kind of data is difficult, right now it's just something I worry about.

I don't think it replaces a junior, but it raises the bar for the potential that a a junior would need to show early, for exactly the reason you mention. A junior will now need to be a potential senior.

The juniors that are in trouble are the low-potential workhorse folks who really aren't motivated but happened to get skilled up in a workshop or technical school. They hopped on the coding wagon as a lucrative career change, not because they loved it.

Those folks are in trouble and should move on to the next trend... which ironically is probably saying you can wrangle AI.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#246

The article says that more juniors + AI was the early narrative, but where does that come from? Everything I’ve read has been the opposite. I thought people from the beginning saw that AI would amplify a senior’s skills and leave less opportunities for juniors.

No code, low code, vibe code. The narrative outside tech circles is "empowering creators"

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#247
post #211

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I don't need a study to tell me that five projects that have been stuck in slow plodding along waiting for me to ever have time or resources for nearly ten years. that's the issue in the argument though. it could be that those projects would also have been completed in the same time if you had simply started working on them. but honestly, if it makes you feel productive to the point you're doing more work than you…

I don't think that's correct. That could be true if I were primarily a programmer, but I am not. I'm mostly a certified medical physicist working in a hospital. Programming is a skill that is helpful and I have spent my programming time building other tools that I need. But that list is gigantic, the software that is available for purchase is all complete crap, the market is too small for investment, etc. That's all…

You are very fortunately in the perfect slot for where LLM has a lot of bang for the buck.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#248

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it have actually taken you 3x longer? I am surprising myself these days with how fast I'm being using AI as a glorified Stack Overflow. We are also having studies and posts come out that when actually tried side-by-side, the AI writes the coding route is slower, though the developer percieves it as faster.

I am not the biggest fan of LLMs but I have to admit that, as long as you understand what the technology is and how it works, it is a very powerful tool. I think the mixed reports on utility have a lot to do with the very different ways the tool is used and how much 'magic' the end-user expects versus how much the end-user expects to guide the tool to do the work. To get the best out of it, you do have to provide sig…

> (though it can help with that too)

Yeah, this is a big thing I'm noticing a lot of people miss.

I have tons of people ask me "how do I get claude to do ?"

"Ask claude" is the only response I can give.

You can get the LLM to help you figure out how to get to your goal and write the right prompt before you even ask the LLM to get to your goal.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#249

AI was supposed to get rid of juniors (and seniors, soon).

No, it was supposed to get rid of the seniors because they cost more and replace them with cheap juniors + AI. If you need some humans and you are a corpo bean counter, the cheaper the body the better.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I could have written it but it would have taken me about 3x longer when all is said and done. Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself. Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not?

> Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not? On a tangent; that study is brought up a lot. There are some issues with it, but I agree with the main takeaway to be weary of the feeling of productivity vs actual productivity. But most of the time its brought up by AI skeptics, that conveniently gloss over the fact it's about averages. Which, while organ…

Engineers have always been terrible at measuring productivity. Building a new internal tool or writing a bunch of code is not necessarily productive.

Productivity is something that creates business value. In that sense an engineer who writes 10 lines of code but that code solves a $10M business problem or allows the company to sign 100 new customers may be the most productive engineer in your organization.

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