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AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

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Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#171

Post by skydhash »

DarkNova6 wrote: post #117
celticninja wrote: post #113

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A junior would see the solution works and create a PR. A senior knows it works, why it works and what can be improved, then they open a PR. AI is great at a first draft of anything, code, images, text, but the real skill is turning that first draft into something good.

I don't see this a problem of seniority but one of mindset. I've met enough "senior devs" that will push just about anything and curious juniors that are much more selective about their working process.

I believe senior here means experienced, not older.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#172

Post by wiseowise »

Avicebron wrote: post #118
rolisz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they skip to another job for more money, and you start again with a new hire.

Thankfully after many generations of human interactions and complex analysis of group dynamics, we've found a solution. It's called 'don't be an asshole' and 'pay people competitively'. edit: because people are stupid, 'competitively' in this sense isn't some theoretical number pulled from an average, it's 'does this person feel better off financially working with you than others around them who don't work with you,…

They do have a point. Why waste a time on person who will always need more money over time, rather than invest in AI? Not only you don’t need to please every hire, your seniors will be more thankful too, because they will get linearly faster with time.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#173

Post by faangguyindia »

Avicebron wrote: post #118
rolisz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they skip to another job for more money, and you start again with a new hire.

Thankfully after many generations of human interactions and complex analysis of group dynamics, we've found a solution. It's called 'don't be an asshole' and 'pay people competitively'. edit: because people are stupid, 'competitively' in this sense isn't some theoretical number pulled from an average, it's 'does this person feel better off financially working with you than others around them who don't work with you,…

The person paying and the one responsible for coaching others usually aren't same

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#174

Post by micromacrofoot »

Hendrikto wrote: post #71
bentt wrote: post #60

The best code I've written with an LLM has been where I architect it, I guide the LLM through the scaffolding and initial proofs of different components, and then I guide it through adding features. Along the way it makes mistakes and I guide it through fixing them. Then when it is slow, I profile and guide it through optimizations. So in the end, it's code that I know very, very well. I could have written it but it…

> I could have written it but it would have taken me about 3x longer when all is said and done. Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself. Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not?

It's this, but 1000 times faster — that's the difference. It's sending a noob away to follow your exact instructions and getting results back in 10 seconds instead of 10 hours.

I don't have to worry about managing the noob's emotions or their availability, I can tell the LLM to try 3 different approaches and it only takes a few minutes... I can get mad at it and say "fuck it I'll do this part myself", the LLM doesn't have to be reminded of our workflow or formatting (I just tell the LLM once)

I can tell it that I see a code smell and it will usually have an idea of what I'm talking about and attempt to correct, little explanation needed

The LLM can also: do tons of research in a short amount of time, traverse the codebase and answer questions for me, etc

it's a noob savant

It's no replacement for a competent person, but it's a very useful assistant

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#175

Post by ludicrousdispla »

Hendrikto wrote: post #71
bentt wrote: post #60

The best code I've written with an LLM has been where I architect it, I guide the LLM through the scaffolding and initial proofs of different components, and then I guide it through adding features. Along the way it makes mistakes and I guide it through fixing them. Then when it is slow, I profile and guide it through optimizations. So in the end, it's code that I know very, very well. I could have written it but it…

> I could have written it but it would have taken me about 3x longer when all is said and done. Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself. Wasn’t there a study that said that using LLMs makes people feel more productive while they actually are not?

LLMs make two people more productive, the person that uses the LLM, and then the person that cleans up the mess.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#176

Post by andoando »

swat535 wrote: post #143
notarobot123 wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Have you tried a more granular strategy - smaller chunks and more iterative cycles?

At that point, you might as well write it yourself. Instead of writing 300 lines of code, you are writing 300 lines of prompts. What benefit would you get?

Its not. "Add this table, write the dto" takes 10 seconds to do. It would take me few mins probably assuming Im familiar with the language and much longer if Im not.

But its a lot better than that.

"Write this table. from here store it into table. Write endpoint to return all from the table"

I also had good luck with stuff like "scrape this page, collect x and y, download link pointed at y, store in this directory".

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#177

Post by binary132 »

Avicebron wrote: post #118
rolisz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they skip to another job for more money, and you start again with a new hire.

Thankfully after many generations of human interactions and complex analysis of group dynamics, we've found a solution. It's called 'don't be an asshole' and 'pay people competitively'. edit: because people are stupid, 'competitively' in this sense isn't some theoretical number pulled from an average, it's 'does this person feel better off financially working with you than others around them who don't work with you,…

The elephant in this particular room is that there are a tiny handful of employers that have so much money that they can and do just pay whatever amount is more than any of their competitors can possibly afford.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#178

Post by thfuran »

Avicebron wrote: post #118
rolisz wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And then they skip to another job for more money, and you start again with a new hire.

Thankfully after many generations of human interactions and complex analysis of group dynamics, we've found a solution. It's called 'don't be an asshole' and 'pay people competitively'. edit: because people are stupid, 'competitively' in this sense isn't some theoretical number pulled from an average, it's 'does this person feel better off financially working with you than others around them who don't work with you,…

The common corporate policy of making it harder to give raises than to increase starting salaries for new hires is insane.

Re: AI was supposed to help juniors shine. Why does it mostly make seniors stronger?

#179

Post by giantg2 »

raincole wrote: post #108
giantg2 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"Really does not sound like that from your description. It sounds like coaching a noob, which is a lot of work in itself." And if this is true, you will have to coach AI each time whereas a person should advance over time.

At least you can ask AI to summarize a AGENT.md or something and it will read it diligently next time. As for humans, they might not have the motivation technical writing skill to document what they learnt. And even if they did, the next person might not have the patience to actually read it.

I find the summaries to be helpful. However, I find some of the detailed points to lack a deep understanding of technical points and their importance.
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