The lightbulb reinvented • Hacker News Board

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#121

Post by zarify » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 3:10 AM UTC

ForrestN wrote: post #52

From an efficiency/sustainability point of view, I have a basic discomfort with the idea of throwing away all the wifi/controller stuff each time you need a new bulb. I know LEDs don't run out very fast, but they do run out. This has cost implications too. What about a setup where there are two levels of screw: the LED bulb screws into a fixture with the wifi stuff inside, which then screws into the light fixture? Th…

From an efficiency point of view, what about all of these bulbs which will now be drawing power 24/7 for the wifi components, along with everything else in the house that has a standby function?

Just get LED bulbs and use the off switch.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#122

Post by nickloewen » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 4:15 AM UTC

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #73

adamcox wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more reason for the double screw idea. You can upgrade the WiFi radio when your network becomes incompatible in the future.

This is definitely feature overload for a typical person. I find it funny how on HN there arguments that non-replaceable batteries in MBPs are okay, and at the same time, that a small gadget must have user-replaceable radio.

I think that this is because non-replaceable batteries in laptops and non-replaceable radios in lights are not directly analogous.

For one thing (I assume) you could get the battery replaced/fixed at an Apple store if you needed; the real issue is doing it yourself. Retrofitting new radios into old bulbs seems less likely to be a service that will be offered.

Additionally, the lifespan of the computer is 20 years less than the lifespan of the bulb. With the computer, if you had to get a new one when the battery ran out, in most cases it wouldn't be too much of a tragedy since you would be looking forward to a bigger better machine anyway. For the bulb, though, the wifi component could be obsoleted within a few years, while the actual light source has the capacity to run for another 20. So for each object, the ratio of when one part fails to when the user would want to replace it anyway is quite different.

Plus the non-replaceable batteries have the theoretical up-sides of leading to better build quality and industrial design, which is less apparently true of the bulb.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#123

Post by ScottBurson » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 4:16 AM UTC

JoshTriplett wrote: post #109

I'd find this potentially interesting if I had any confidence that it wouldn't burn out in a few months like every other "lasts for years" bulb I've tried.

I've been using CFLs for a decade, and the vast majority have lasted for years. (I think I can remember one that burned out in a few months.)

As with many things, buying the very cheapest is not the way you're most likely to have a good experience.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#124

Post by netfire » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 4:29 AM UTC

dakrisht wrote: post #8

I like the project. It's neat. Also neat is watching the video and seeing hundreds of dollars pour into the Kickstarter project. I guess the WiFi/logic controller is on-board each individual bulb? Then you would pair(?) the bulbs to the app? If that's the case, I wonder what they're doing about security - since most anyone skilled would be able to hack different homes with different light setups. Hopefully this doesn…

I was wondering about the security as well. I would imagine it would make it easier for thieves to rob a house where they could turn off all the lights. Or turn on the lights and see if there is any reaction (to see if anyone is home).

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#125

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 5:01 AM UTC

rsl7 wrote: post #120

ChuckMcM wrote: post #106

This is one of those times where I wonder what these guys think Phillips, GE, and others are spending hundreds of millions, if not billions, of dollars on LED lighting solutions are doing. In some industries you can say "Oh they just don't get it" but lighting is so fashion driven and so fundamental to everything we do these entrenched players don't miss out on much.

I imagine they're spending tons on focus groups and market research trying to find out what people want. They're probably not hearing "we want to turn lights on and off with our iPhones". Or at least not enough people are saying that to justify them building a product line around that concept and selling it at Home Depot. Meanwhile, this kickstarter project has raised enough to prove the concept and at least get me a…

I'm a bit put off by their claim of 133 lumens per watt. (6 watts for 800 lumens) and I've bought / used several LED lights and designed lights for my RV which runs off batteries when not hooked up to an external AC source. Love their demo video though, think it will be a killer product. I look forward to being able to buy one once they are in production.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#126

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 5:07 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #113

ChuckMcM wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Strangely most people who come up with these sorts of ideas independently usually operate with one of two perspectives: 1) I know I thought of this idea so I've got a right to use it. 2) This idea is pretty obvious, it just hasn't had anyone willing to implement it. Both of which give the implementer a false sense of security. People who've done this once or twice and been hit on the head by the stupid patent hammer,…

When I saw http://www.smarthome.com/2672-222/INSTEON-LED-Bulb/p.aspx up-thread I wondered immediately whether the ribs were functional as they otherwise might be infringing on a design patent for the bulb, looks very similar to me. If there are patents on the Insteon implementation seems highly likely they'd be generalised to independent wifi networked devices. Looks like the Insteon needs a controller but you can ha…

Wow, that light looks very similar, I wondered if there was a design patent so I just did an 'Insteon' search on the USPTO database [1]. Could be a challenge ahead [2].

[1] http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...

[2] http://patft.uspto.gov/netacgi/nph-Parser?Sect1=PTO2&Sec...

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#127

Post by ChuckMcM » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 5:16 AM UTC

meanguy wrote: post #33

jrockway wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My bedroom is lit by LEDs and it's fine. I also use a big 17W bulb as a table lamp and it's often the only light I have turned on in my apartment. It works almost as well as my big 6x40W halogen fixture. (Though obviously the halogen light is much brighter, there is "enough" light either way for things like walking around, getting dressed, etc.) The only problem is that I think the color rendering index must be prett…

The poor color rendering is what the comment above you is talking about. If a bulb makes your wood walls look funny and the picture of your girlfriend on the desk look like an alien, it's not going to go mainstream. Especially if it costs $50. Mike Herf (of Picasa/F.lux fame) wrote some articles when CFLs were going to solve everything, you know, three years ago. Applies to LEDs as well. His wife is a painter. Let th…

Great link, definitely worth reading.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#128

Post by mayneack » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 5:16 AM UTC

Given the department of energy's smart grid/home/appliance goals. They might be better off with a DoE grant than a kickstarter (better for them, not necessarily better for consumers/taxpayers/etc)

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#129

Post by ghshephard » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 6:40 AM UTC

Scene_Cast2 wrote: post #73

adamcox wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Even more reason for the double screw idea. You can upgrade the WiFi radio when your network becomes incompatible in the future.

This is definitely feature overload for a typical person. I find it funny how on HN there arguments that non-replaceable batteries in MBPs are okay, and at the same time, that a small gadget must have user-replaceable radio.

It's important to note that the batteries are replaceable with a visit to the Genius bar. In the case of this light, there is no such option. You won't be able to take 20-30 lightbulbs from your house and upgrade the radio in five years, you'll just have to replace the lightbulbs.

Re: The lightbulb reinvented

#130

Post by ianlevesque » Mon, Sep 17, 2012, 7:18 AM UTC

ForrestN wrote: post #52

From an efficiency/sustainability point of view, I have a basic discomfort with the idea of throwing away all the wifi/controller stuff each time you need a new bulb. I know LEDs don't run out very fast, but they do run out. This has cost implications too. What about a setup where there are two levels of screw: the LED bulb screws into a fixture with the wifi stuff inside, which then screws into the light fixture? Th…

Only one master bulb has a full WiFi setup, which consumes 2-3W. The rest of the bulbs communicate with the master using an 802.15.4 mesh network (which is very very energy efficient).