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This map is not upside down

maps.com

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Re: This map is not upside down

#311
post #76

> Psychologically, we tend to view things nearer the top as ‘good’ and those lower as ‘bad.’ This, of course, is the point of the article. It was so predictable that it made me wonder: who is telling me that top is good and lower is bad? The articles themselves.

Really? Before you read this article you never associated being on top = good and being at the bottom = bad?

Doesn’t the meaning of a word depend from its context ? Why the bottom of a map should be “bad”?

Re: This map is not upside down

#312
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Writing top to bottom, and even left to right has/had advantages for mostly right-handed writers to avoid moving your hand over and smudging previously written text.

Writing top-to-bottom has advantages for all writers whose eyes are above their hands. The bit of the writing surface that's blocked by your hand hasn't been written on yet.

Extending that, heads have a much easier time moving left and right than up and down, since the motion uses the pivot joints. So, that means rastering left to right, then top to bottom, is the best match to the average reading and writing human (since right handedness is the dominant genetic trait [1]).

[1] https://www.nature.com/articles/s41598-018-37423-8

Re: This map is not upside down

#313
post #186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As someone from the southern hemisphere, the only thing more patronizing and infuriating than this is the insistence from the same moralizing group that my country isn’t part of “The West”, despite it being physically and culturally there.

The West only makes sense in the Northern Hemisphere. I’m in Peru right now, and people talk about the local cultures in comparison to Western culture and I find it kind of confusing. They’re certainly not Eastern here. It gets unconfusing if you realize it just means White.

> It gets unconfusing if you realize it just means White.

It definitely does not. Russia, for example, would be considered "White", but is decidedly not part of "the West".

Re: This map is not upside down

#314
Ok, the idea that "north is up" is potentially a consequential thing is somewhat fair. In that it is not just dismissable out of hand.

That said, it is pretty silly. And asserting it is meaningful philosophically reeks of agenda pushing.

It is also just going to be an outdated concern faster than makes sense. Most kids are growing up used to computer maps in navigation devices, and those, by far, default to "up" being "straight ahead." Because they can.

Re: This map is not upside down

#315

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gravity is just a random natural process to pick for your point. You could just as easily say “bottom to top is natural because that’s the direction trees grow”. It’s all arbitrary.

yeah it's remarkable how many comments in this thread seem to be grasping onto random facts as if they represent a non-arbitrary justification. is this a contrarian impulse or an anti-contrarian impulse?

People latch hardest onto a random explanation when they have the least idea what’s going on. The more someone knows, the more complicated and “it depends” their answer will be I’ve found.

A green flag for me that someone might be an expert is when their attitude towards answering a questions has that “it depends” energy.

Re: This map is not upside down

#316
post #258

The thing I resent most is the terms Global North and Global South. It seems like an offensive classification no matter which side you are placed. China is an incredibly rich, highly developed industrial economy with a history that goes back thousands of years with massive cultural influence. They are firmly in the northern hemisphere. They have high speed electric trains and their cities look like something out of B…

How about East - West? https://m.xkcd.com/503/

Strangely, most people "Orient" a map with the east on the right hand side and the Occident on the left hand side.

Re: This map is not upside down

#317
post #272

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gravity is just a random natural process to pick for your point. You could just as easily say “bottom to top is natural because that’s the direction trees grow”. It’s all arbitrary.

I don't think "natural" is used metaphorically. If you had an accurate simulation of the human hand you could show that one of the directions minimizes energy usage and damage to your hand, and I think it's the one we use. Starting high means gravity is helping you move down the page, and it's also easier to move your hand towards you than away from you, and the many small movements (rather than the one big one to th…

I can agree moving down the page is probably more common due to human mechanics, AND say that trying to make the argument the way they did wasn’t particularly sensible.

Re: This map is not upside down

#318
post #227

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Gravity is just a random natural process to pick for your point. You could just as easily say “bottom to top is natural because that’s the direction trees grow”. It’s all arbitrary.

I don't think it takes knowledge of gravity/energy/entropy to generalize that things more naturally "fall down" rather things naturally "rise up". But, it's probably a stretch to say that influenced writing direction. Others have made a possibly more relevant point - in one direction, your arm/hand will block what you have already written.

More languages read right to left than left to right despite most people being right handed, so the blocking what you’ve written thing doesn’t seem to add up either.

I agree human mechanics is likely the reason people tend to write down rather than up though. But I’d say it’s more about our muscles, we’re stronger pulling our arms in than pushing them out. But I’m no expert so would never claim confidence in my assumption there.

Re: This map is not upside down

#319
post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it’s at the bottom and you put it on a table, more of the land is closer to you and therefore easier to read. Its all arbitrary, and we can all make up random minor pro/cons all we like but it don’t change that.

> more of the land is closer to you and therefore easier to read. As most people age, that gets less true. The optimum placement ends up being around an arms length away, so being away from the edge could help. But if you're showing the whole world, typically the details aren't that important, so it's mostly arbitrary.

Haha, don’t read into my random example too hard, it was only there to prove you can make an argument for anything if you try hard enough.

Re: This map is not upside down

#320
post #258

The thing I resent most is the terms Global North and Global South. It seems like an offensive classification no matter which side you are placed. China is an incredibly rich, highly developed industrial economy with a history that goes back thousands of years with massive cultural influence. They are firmly in the northern hemisphere. They have high speed electric trains and their cities look like something out of B…

How about East - West? https://m.xkcd.com/503/

Funny. I come from Poland and for us the East/West dichotomy always made sense: the West = Western Europe and US (think richer, more organized, pleasant to visit) vs the East = remains of USSR (poorer, corrupted, wild), the "proper Asian East" behind it and the most exotic "Far East" at the very end. Not very politically correct, but this was a cognitive construct most of us here had in their minds, at least until this decade.
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