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EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

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Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#21

Post by gpderetta »

p_l wrote: post #18
patates wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I didn't think this was even possible. Can EU laws actually override the constitutional rights of member states? I was under the impression that the principle of supremacy isn't absolute and doesn't extend to overriding a country's fundamental constitutional rights. If that's not the case, the danger isn't limited to just Germany. With authoritarian regimes gaining power everywhere, it would only take a few of them w…

Privacy of communications is usually a normal law not constitutional principle, so slots perfectly fine without any supremacy issues between constitution and EU law.

It is indeed a constitutional principle in many EU countries.

It is also part of the Treaty of Lisbon via the EU Charter of Fundamental Rights, which is the closest thing to a constitutional level law for the EU.

Not that this has ever stopped anybody.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#22

Post by nickslaughter02 »

flanked-evergl wrote: post #9

EU must go.

Good luck. EU has been producing one Europe crippling law and regulation after another and it still enjoys wide support for some reason. Ursula is facing two more no confidence votes in October so hopefully the tide is changing.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#23

Post by eqvinox »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20
Quarrel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan, but in what was is this, or any other topic, undemocratic to have debates and votes on? The sanctions politicians should face for bringing up unpopular topics should be that they don't get voted for. > These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the most powerful punishments available. Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

Next European Parliament election will be in 2029.

Edit: there was a copypaste of voting requirements here, from https://eur-lex.europa.eu/EN/legal-content/summary/voting-ri.... This is apparently wrong; you can also vote if you're not residing in the EU, only EU citizen. (I thought this was the case, and that link not saying that made me suspicious.) How it is possible that they've put up incorrect information on voting rights, I have no clue.

Actual reference, this time legal text: https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-content/EN/TXT/?uri=CELEX%3A...

Any person who, on the reference date:

(a) is a citizen of the Union within the meaning of the second subparagraph of Article 8 (1) of the Treaty;

(b) is not a national of the Member State of residence, but satisfies the same conditions in respect of the right to vote and to stand as a candidate as that State imposes by law on its own nationals,

shall have the right to vote […]

So either citizenship or residency is sufficient.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#25

Post by flanked-evergl »

nickslaughter02 wrote: post #22
flanked-evergl wrote: post #9

EU must go.

Good luck. EU has been producing one Europe crippling law and regulation after another and it still enjoys wide support for some reason. Ursula is facing two more no confidence votes in October so hopefully the tide is changing.

People were told the lie that without the EU there will be war again. Like the economic stagnation and decline of Europe is somehow the final solution and the end of history.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#26

Post by codeptualize »

One interesting line in the proposal:

> Detection will not apply to accounts used by the State for national security purposes, maintaining law and order or military purposes;

If it's all very safe and accurate, why is this exception necessary? Doesn't this say either that it's not secure, or that there is a likely hood that there will be false positives that will be reviewed?

If they have it all figured out, this exception should not be necessary. The reality is that it isn't secure as they are creating backdoors in the encryption, and they will flag many communications incorrectly. That means a lot of legal private communications will leak, and/or will be reviewed by the EU that they have absolutely no business looking into.

It's ridiculous that they keep trying this absolutely ridiculous plan over and over again.

I also wonder about the business implications. I don't think we can pass compliance if we communicate over channels that are not encrypted. We might not be able to do business internationally anymore as our communications will be scanned and reviewed by the EU.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#27

Post by aleph_minus_one »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20
Quarrel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan, but in what was is this, or any other topic, undemocratic to have debates and votes on? The sanctions politicians should face for bringing up unpopular topics should be that they don't get voted for. > These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the most powerful punishments available. Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

> How do I vote out Ursula [von der] Leyen?

This can only be done indirectly.

Under https://www.euronews.com/my-europe/2024/11/27/which-meps-bac... you can at least find a chart ("Von der Leyen 2 Commission: How political groups voted") how the political groups in the European parliament voted regarding Ursula von der Leyen's second mandate as European Commission President.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#28

Post by nickslaughter02 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20
Quarrel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan, but in what was is this, or any other topic, undemocratic to have debates and votes on? The sanctions politicians should face for bringing up unpopular topics should be that they don't get voted for. > These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the most powerful punishments available. Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

She's facing two more no confidence votes in October. You just need to convince all 720 members of European Parliament from 27 countries to get rid of her and her commission. Easy.

Re: EU Chat Control: Germany's position has been reverted to undecided

#30

Post by fhd2 »

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #20
Quarrel wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not a fan, but in what was is this, or any other topic, undemocratic to have debates and votes on? The sanctions politicians should face for bringing up unpopular topics should be that they don't get voted for. > These EU politicians endangering freedom, justice and democracy must be held accountable, with the most powerful punishments available. Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it.

>Yes. Vote them out. Keep raising it. OK. How do I vote out Ursula vd Leyen?

She was elected by the European parliament. As an EU citizen, you elect that one.
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