My Android phone prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to. My Android phone prevents me from recording phone calls at the request of my carrier, even though it's totally legal for me to do so in my jurisdiction. I'm not loving where this is all going.
My government (Denmark) refusing to let me use their digital identity app because I don't want to accept Google's or Apple's TOS, and Google helping them enforce that via remote attestation services. Luckily there are alternatives in the form of code displays and NFC chips. However, next year I won't be able to watch porn unless I verify my age using a smartphone, no alternatives are planned. Or rather, I have the "f…
Linux phones are more important now than ever
221–230 of 515 posts
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#222I tried the fantastic DroidVNC-NG (KUDOS to the author) app because I wanted to see if I could stream a whole Android phone left at home at all times. The idea was attempting to switch to PostmarketOS, so if I ever needed to use a banking app I could do it through this phone via a VNC client. You can't. Banking apps black the login screen. Even if that is ok for 99.9% of users, I know what I'm doing and I do not abso…
I see the banking complaint all the time, but most banks provide a web site too. Is it really such a chore to use the site rather than the app?
Not just because of the look and feel but everything was just odd and in the wrong places compared to the store app. I should probably try this from a mobile browser but the last time I used Firefox in Postmarket OS it behaved like a desktop browser (in fact I think I read somewhere that it is indeed a regular Firefox resized to be used in PostmarketOS) so I'm assuming that the experience is going to be really bad.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#223Earlier quoted context omitted.
In some sense they are. But being protected either from a consequence of my own stupidity or a consequence of their lack of security. I think the worst part of all is that these "bandaids" are being used in place of actual security. I don't need to be protected from my own stupidity nor do I need security theater.
It doesn't really protect anything though, because you can always just use an external camera to take a picture of your screen.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#224As someone willing to put up with all manner of nonsense (overpriced/underpowered hardware, clunky UI, endless troubleshooting), battery life on mobile Linux devices alone prevents me from using them in the real world. Is there a single Linux phone/tablet that can last an 8 hour day of actual use? Librem/Pinephone/Juno can't. My uConsole can't. Different category, but my MNT mini laptop lasts like 4 hours and can't b…
e.g. your device consumed 1 Watt on average, you wanted 8 hour runtime, then you need a battery with 8 Watt-hours, or 2,162.162162162162 mAh at 3.7V of capacity, before factoring in buffers of various kinds. But it's also roughly the datasheet nominal capacity of a single 18650 cell.
You don't worry about daily battery life on mainstream mobile devices and you can fall asleep with YouTube playing and it's still playing when you wake up because manufacturers know consumers do that and optimize the phone to make that work. They probably reduce display brightness, cut powers to mics and P cores, ask 3M to make the pouch films 1% thinner so battery could be few more percent bigger inside, fudge battery gauges so you would be nudged correctly to have enough charge before you fall asleep, the list goes as far as your imagination could possibly go.
The fact that same behaviors don't happen on Linux devices, even with something like four of fresh 18650s, means the list ends before it begins. They probably don't do ANY power profiling AT ALL. I'm sure they don't do ANY environmental testing, either.
Would I accept that as a consumer? No. Would I if I was the manufacturer? ...
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#225What I don't get (plz help me) is why out of a sudden this vendors close up their phones and why is Google going this way? What's their intend?
Bootloader unlock removal:
It's actually not happening all of a sudden. The dam-breaking moment is more that Samsung, the number #1 Android vendor, decided to stop supporting it.
The vendors stop maintaining bootloader-unlocking methods because the cost/benefit profile to develop/maintain/support that feature and its consequences is simply not sufficient, all while several of the biggest customers explicitly require unlock to NOT be supported.
Supporting this is not just about the unlock itself, it's about allowing this unlock (required as some carriers explicitly forbid this, so a unlock needs to be requested), then performing the procedure (using a shared secret between the device and the vendor) and then the OS continuing to boot in this untrusted state with all components gracefully handling this broken trust-chain.
The commercial incentive for this feature isn't there for a device-vendor, it actually never was. It was built, defended and fought for by passionate people (mostly within the R&D) of those companies. Companies which managed to implement it early (in times of higher product margins) were able to keep it longer, others simply couldn't get the budget to implement bootloader-unlock in the first place. Today, devices are shipped with commitments of several years of upgrades, without the vendor actually knowing yet how the OS-upgrade in 2 years will look like. Keeping his custom security-implementation is a risk-factor here
The 3rd party OS developer community was always small, and became even smaller in the past years. The footprint of alternative OS users was shrinking since Cyanogen (the leading "universal kernel" developers for Android and predecessor of LineageOS) dissolved (or tried to become a for-profit).
However, the events around Cyanogen were more of a public symptom, The main driver for people to stop using 3rd party OS's was:
1.) The increasing fragmentation of devices in the market: When the community started, the majority of the market was Samsung, Motorola, LG, Sony. Samsung was leading, but each of them had quite healthy parts of the Android market, competing with each other in an "almost-stalemate" situation. Today Samsung is leading with a huge margin, all others are basically fighting for scraps. So naturally, most of them try to go for the lowest common denominator and find a distribution channel.
2.) Android itself became more competitive: At the height of the OS community, people switched to alternative OS's to get a newer OS, new customization options and convenience features. Today, vanilla Android checks most of the convenience options already, sufficiently that most people don't want to bother researching alternative options, maintaining them, etc. Devices of major vendors are receiving upgrades for several years (back then it was ONE major-OS Upgrade, a YEAR after Google's release, if at all)
3.) Device-integrity became more important: At the height of the OS-community, there was no Device Integrity check by Google to give a flag on whether the device can be trusted or not, so all apps kept working (with minor exception of some streaming services restricting their service/resolution, as the DRM keystore became unavailable on unlock). Today, most banking and entertainment apps rely on those Google integrity checks to decide whether they should even start. This introduced another reason for users to consider their actual need for an alternative OS.
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How to change that: If it's not possible to create a commercial incentive for the vendors, a regulatory incentive could be an option.
It's crazy to think how much computing power is just added to a drawer or landfill every day, just because there is no reason for the vendor to allow you to repurpose it.
I think this could be a path, to legally require device-vendors to provide a common SW-layer with respective documentation to utilize features of underlying hardware (optional without the shipped OS on top, disconnecting the device from the shipped ecosystem). This would prevent e-waste and put this old hardware to better use. A community OS could then be built on top of this common SW-layer and be maintained for a wider range of devices.
I would e.g. LOVE a "Browser on everything" OS which just provides a Browser OS for outdated hardware, but the only way this could work on scale would be if the device-vendor would be mandated to provide and document the lower layer...
Someone would have to make the economic case for such a regulation as well, i.e. demonstrate the benefit for society if that is in place. The chances for this are razor-thin, especially in today's public/political climate.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#226Isn't Android... Linux? It's not "gotcha", just... there are many clones of Android that work without Google Play, because Android (AOSP) is based on Linux. Why not just use that? What does "linux phone" add?
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#227My Android phone prevents me from taking screenshots if an app author doesn't want me to. My Android phone prevents me from recording phone calls at the request of my carrier, even though it's totally legal for me to do so in my jurisdiction. I'm not loving where this is all going.
- Bank told me to go to Google.
- Google support told me to go to the Bank.
- (... few emails later...)
- Google support told me to make screenshots of the banking app and google pay.
So have a second phone ready, or stop complaining :) A few years later and 3 phones later... it works again!
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#228Earlier quoted context omitted.
route everything through a vps?
It's a temporary solution though. It's only going to get more draconian. Next thing you know the talk is about punishing VPN users, because now they can be painted as evading the law.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#229Earlier quoted context omitted.
The issue is bigger than that. Why not two people share a device, and when passed from one person to another, delete applications and install all apps and profiles from scratch using verified checksums saved on a blockchain. An OS which could do that is something like Nix. When passed to the previous person same thing, delete and install everything from scratch. Using smartphones in a smart way, not a dumb way, like…
This assumes that these two persons will never need to use a smartphone at the same moment, which is a bit of a logistical puzzle. Installing apps is the trivial part; isolating, or removing / reinstalling user data is much harder. Especially a few gigabytes of it. An SD card could work maybe. This all goes against the grain of the smarthpone UX, the idea of a highly personal device that you can use for anything, and…
In general no one wants to share anything with anyone, but when two people cannot afford a device individually, but it is within reach when they buy it together, time-sharing becomes a totally acceptable solution.
> Installing apps is the trivial part; isolating, or removing / reinstalling user data is much harder. An SD card could work maybe.
Checksums might overlap by quite a bit. No need to remove programs installed by both users. If the total installation of each user is 10 GB, but the installation diverges 300MB only, not a big deal in most cases.
Re: Linux phones are more important now than ever
#230EU should fork Android. Fund a small team of devs, nothing fancy, no major changes just keep it secure.