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A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

arxiv.org

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Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#131

Post by 0cf8612b2e1e »

kulahan wrote: post #125
0cf8612b2e1e wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Definitely sympathizes the victims even more. I had been thinking that these were 1-2 month, ham-fisted operations: establish contact and rush to grab the cash from the gullible rube. To string along the target for a year shows dedication completely separate from the pedestrian scams you normally encounter.

I happened across the "Tinder Swindler" video on Netflix the other day, and I was shocked at how elaborate these scams can get. Always thought I'd catch onto this stuff, but... Imagine: you meet someone online. You talk for a while, and decide to meet up for dinner. They say nothing, but upon googling them (for safety, of course) you discover they're the son of a billionaire - a weapons or diamonds magnate or somethi…

That is an incredible scam . Easy to see how it could suck in some people. Lot of overhead, though. Wonder how many potential victims tap out early and never yield a return. I suppose the front man only requires a minimal amount of charm when they are an heir.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#132

Post by shkkmo »

K0balt wrote: post #130
shkkmo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you engage at all, you risk worsening their situation by wasting their time, while if you do engage you might be saving someone else at their expense…. I don't understand what you are arguing for here? That they need to be allowed to scam someone else to avoid worsening their situation? I'd say wasting their time is the best solution. It avoids giving the bosses info on what approaches works with who and helps m…

I don’t think there’s any good answers here. Wasting their time will push their numbers down which, if they are not deemed productive, will almost certainly result in potentially horrific negative consequences for them or perhaps a loved one. The kind of people that run criminal organisations generally don’t give credit for trying. It’s strictly numbers.

> The kind of people that run criminal organisations generally don’t give credit for trying. It’s strictly numbers.

Hence my argument that wasting the scammers' resources is the moral choice. If you help the bosses identify bad prospects (even if just yourself), then you make the activity more profitable and incentivize it.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#133

Post by shkkmo »

pixl97 wrote: post #113
shkkmo wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If you engage at all, you risk worsening their situation by wasting their time, while if you do engage you might be saving someone else at their expense…. I don't understand what you are arguing for here? That they need to be allowed to scam someone else to avoid worsening their situation? I'd say wasting their time is the best solution. It avoids giving the bosses info on what approaches works with who and helps m…

>That they need to be allowed to scam someone else to avoid worsening their situation? There are two levels of scammers here. One is the low level scammer that is directly interfacing with you. In these situations they are also victims that are being held by violence. Simply put if bad things happen to these people or not the scam will remain as this level is rather cheap. The bosses will observe from a higher level…

> the scam will remain as this level is rather cheap.

The less efficient you can make the process, the less you make it attractive to put resources into scaling it. Focus on making them generate the types of proof that aren't as easy to fabricate or at least give them as little information about why their initial approach failed as possible by playing along for a while after you catch on so they can't figure out how they got caught.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#134

Post by est »

guappa wrote: post #34
est wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the scammers had the best CRM software and "customer service" training. If any of the scam farm worker failed they will get physical punishment or even capital punishment...

Is this for sure? I can imagine that even then, 99% of the attempts will fail.

many of the them are in heavy debt or commited crime and had no other jobs avaible.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#135

Post by pinkmuffinere »

frotaur wrote: post #29

I often get these 'Is this ?' messages on telegram, from usually what appears to be a beautiful woman. I always answer on the positive, it is very fun to see them try to ask a question that will make me answer 'no that's not me' so they can continue on the next part. Can recommend.

Lol, that's great. I got one that was something like "Are you still coming for dinner? The chicken is just finished baking." It sounded delicious, I wanted it so badly to be real haha

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#136

Post by nradov »

FabHK wrote: post #110
wiether wrote: post #10

Didn't know the meaning of "pig-butchering scam", so I took it at its front value and was a bit confused.

Frankly, I am shocked by this. I don’t mean that to criticise you or others that didn’t know the term, but the quality of the discourse/media. Pig butchering and related crypto scams are an enormous problem. Latest estimates are that the cyber scam industry revenues exceed the illegal drug trade. There are so many victims, both cyber trafficking victims promised great jobs then forced to perpetrate the scams, as well…

Myanmar was already a failed state. The scammers just took advantage of the anarchy and corruption.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#137

Post by ropable »

When you start learning a little more about pig butchering scams and the organisations which run them, it gets extremely harrowing. There are literally hundreds of thousands of people being forced to work in these online scams across Myanmar and Cambodia under threat of violence or worse. The human cost to both sides of this practice is staggering.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#138

Post by M95D »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #42
M95D wrote: post #20

We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject.

> We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject. A lot of people actually are scammers - and this is socially accepted. What is the difference between the "everyday scams" and the scams from this article is rather the scope. Thus, to make people scam-resistant, you have to make them insanely distrusting about everybody in society (or to express it more directly: make the peop…

Resisting propaganda was taught in schools in the '40s. Read about it here:

https://archive.org/details/IPAVol1

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#139

Post by karel-3d »

Theodores wrote: post #86
karel-3d wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They are using actual slaves, not "wage slaves". They kidnap people, lured for work in Thailand, and take them to Myanmar/Burma, where there is a civil war ongoing and a form of lawlessness; while there is a relatively good internet connectivity and electricity. They beat people and force them to do this. It's mostly run by Chinese. (But they scam Chinese too. It originated as scamming older single Chinese ladies, ac…

Actually no. Cyprus was where we got scammed from. I think there might be a bit of 'yellow peril' going on in your imagination.

Interesting. I guess the scam centers moved now.

It's not my imagination, these scam centeres in Myanmar definitely exist and kidnap and scam people, I guess they also moved to other countries now though.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#140

Post by floppiplopp »

What contemporary economic ideology has taught me: If it sounds too good to be true, it usually isn't. And the Venn diagram of scams and business is almost a circle in a sense that companies and criminals don't have your interests in mind. There's really no reason to trust either.
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