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A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

arxiv.org

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Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#41

Post by K0balt »

qnleigh wrote: post #6

I got sucked into reading this paper, and it has completely changed my perception of these scams. They are incredibly thorough and realistic. Here are some quotes that drove this home for me. "The bond phase showed that scammers had tremendous patience; this phase lasted anywhere from 3 to 11 months before the scammer moved on to the next stage of the scam." "When I spoke to her on a video call, it was the same perso…

It was a pretty wild ride, for an arvix paper lol. Easily as good as a provocative work of fiction, It had me questioning my marriage briefly until I rolled over and looked at my toddler, and briefly thought “holy shirt this runs deep!” (And then obviously broke out of the spell of the story lol)

Still, it’s a testament to the level of emotional damage that these scams must levy on their actual victims.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#42

Post by aleph_minus_one »

M95D wrote: post #20

We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject.

> We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject.

A lot of people actually are scammers - and this is socially accepted. What is the difference between the "everyday scams" and the scams from this article is rather the scope.

Thus, to make people scam-resistant, you have to make them insanely distrusting about everybody in society (or to express it more directly: make the people paranoid and near-schizophrenic), including the government, the politicians etc.

Since school serves an agenda, this is of course not done.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#43

Post by cindyllm »

karel-3d wrote: post #35
Theodores wrote: post #5

My dad passed away about three weeks after being fully pig-butchered, losing all of his money and reputation with family/friends. We all tried to talk him out of it, but it was like he joined a cult, for he cut us off and lost his mind. The whole sorry saga is very hard to live with. The sums of money were vast, cocaine addiction would have been a more cost effective way to go. The pig-butchers had some type of bot/A…

They are using actual slaves, not "wage slaves". They kidnap people, lured for work in Thailand, and take them to Myanmar/Burma, where there is a civil war ongoing and a form of lawlessness; while there is a relatively good internet connectivity and electricity. They beat people and force them to do this. It's mostly run by Chinese. (But they scam Chinese too. It originated as scamming older single Chinese ladies, ac…

[dead]

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#44

Post by giveita »

jajko wrote: post #11
Joel_Mckay wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The cons play the statistics, and usually target people that have other issues in their life. One kind lady we knew had early Alzheimer's disease, and they still ran a crypto investor scam and fake police funds recovery con. Yes, the scams actually work on smart people too sometimes... It is not about education or IQ level, but rather if cons target someone currently vulnerable. Note: the 7 spear-phishers on YC are r…

> cons target someone currently vulnerable This. I am a senior software dev, living in Switzerland. Few years ago there was an issue with my residence permit renewal, process that should have taken few weeks took more than a year. No way to contact that Geneva immigration office, and you can't visit them personally, emails ignored. Official phone contact is just a single phone that often rang few times and then dropp…

AML/KYC laws have done us a big favour. Otherwise that would be a bank txn they would ask for. And now buying $200 of gift cards as an actual gift is impossible (in physical space)

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#45

Post by cindyllm »

aleph_minus_one wrote: post #42
M95D wrote: post #20

We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject.

> We should teach/learn resisting scams in school. Far more useful than any other subject. A lot of people actually are scammers - and this is socially accepted. What is the difference between the "everyday scams" and the scams from this article is rather the scope. Thus, to make people scam-resistant, you have to make them insanely distrusting about everybody in society (or to express it more directly: make the peop…

[dead]

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#46

Post by gcanyon »

For those interested in a lightweight summary, Last Week Tonight did a segment on pig-butchering about a year ago. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pLPpl2ISKTg

The interviews with the victims are heartbreaking. There's one dad/daughter pair where the dad has lost almost literally everything, is on camera being interviewed about everything that happened, and is still flipping between "it was a total scam" and "maybe if I just send them another fee payment I can get at least some of my money back" and the daughter saying, "No, dad! It's a scam, and you are not sending them anymore money!"

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#47

Post by bondarchuk »

nomilk wrote: post #19

Was curious of the etymology of name of the scam: > The term comes from fraudsters referring to their victims as 'pigs' – those they gradually 'fatten up' by luring them into a fake romance or friendship before 'butchering' them by convincing them to invest, often in fake cryptocurrency schemes. Source: https://www.interpol.int/en/News-and-Events/News/2024/INTERP...

Oh, I had never gotten the "fatten up" part of the analogy before.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#48

Post by [deleted] »

Theodores wrote: post #5

My dad passed away about three weeks after being fully pig-butchered, losing all of his money and reputation with family/friends. We all tried to talk him out of it, but it was like he joined a cult, for he cut us off and lost his mind. The whole sorry saga is very hard to live with. The sums of money were vast, cocaine addiction would have been a more cost effective way to go. The pig-butchers had some type of bot/A…

[deleted]

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#49

Post by anal_reactor »

qnleigh wrote: post #6

I got sucked into reading this paper, and it has completely changed my perception of these scams. They are incredibly thorough and realistic. Here are some quotes that drove this home for me. "The bond phase showed that scammers had tremendous patience; this phase lasted anywhere from 3 to 11 months before the scammer moved on to the next stage of the scam." "When I spoke to her on a video call, it was the same perso…

Eh. While it's surprising to see someone string along someone through the internet for so long, it's not a really a new thing in the physical world. It happens once in a while that someone marries someone much richer just to file for a divorce a bit later. Heck, it's actually socially acceptable to be nice to people just because you want something from them.

Re: A qualitative analysis of pig-butchering scams

#50

Post by K0balt »

guappa wrote: post #34
est wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

the scammers had the best CRM software and "customer service" training. If any of the scam farm worker failed they will get physical punishment or even capital punishment...

Is this for sure? I can imagine that even then, 99% of the attempts will fail.

There are token rewards for successes and punishments, sometimes extreme, for low productivity. If a slave is seen as having no worth to the endeavour and cannot be trafficked, they will sometimes be killed as a warning to the others that productivity is expected.

It’s a horrific and brutal scenario that pits victims against victims. In many ways, the targets have less to lose than the victims targeting them.

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