Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

My thoughts on renting versus buying

milesbarr.me

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

151–160 of 318 posts

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#151

Post by abxyz »

zeroq wrote: post #79

Counterpoint: buying is always better, people just can't afford it. Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. But after you pay your mortgage you still have an asset in your hand. You can pass it on to your children or you can sell it when you're old, downsize (or even rent) and get some cash for your ret…

Renting is expensive because people can’t buy, driving up prices. If buying were cheap because of increased supply, rent would be cheap too, and much more appealing for the practical benefits. The problem is housing supply, not buying or renting being expensive, that’s a consequence.

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#152

Post by malshe »

zeroq wrote: post #79

Counterpoint: buying is always better, people just can't afford it. Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. But after you pay your mortgage you still have an asset in your hand. You can pass it on to your children or you can sell it when you're old, downsize (or even rent) and get some cash for your ret…

> Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage.

When you own, the mortgage payment is the floor on your monthly cash outlay. by contrast, when you rent, the rent is the ceiling on your monthly cash outlay. So even when they are identical, homeownership is way costlier because of all the other costs one "forgets" to consider while making this comparison. HOA dues, home insurance, property tax, maintenance, etc. add up to thousands of dollars each year. As a renter, you don't have to consider any of these beyond your rent.

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#153

Post by tomjakubowski »

devonkim wrote: post #81
bombcar wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A condo somehow combines the worst aspects of buying and renting.

That would be an HOA moreso than the features of a condo, although a condo tends to imply an HOA in the US. The irony of my experiences with an HOA is that its actions tended to suppress my property value rather than preserve or grow it.

I don't know how a condo building could operate without some kind of shared ownership structure for the common areas and shared infrastructure. What are the alternatives to an HOA in a condo building?

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#154

Post by IncreasePosts »

malshe wrote: post #152
zeroq wrote: post #79

Counterpoint: buying is always better, people just can't afford it. Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. But after you pay your mortgage you still have an asset in your hand. You can pass it on to your children or you can sell it when you're old, downsize (or even rent) and get some cash for your ret…

> Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. When you own, the mortgage payment is the floor on your monthly cash outlay. by contrast, when you rent, the rent is the ceiling on your monthly cash outlay. So even when they are identical, homeownership is way costlier because of all the other costs one "forge…

Sure, but on the other hand, when you have a mortgage (generally fixed interest rate for 20+ years), your biggest expense is guaranteed to stay static. What will your rent be in 10 years? Who the heck knows?

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#155

Post by bluefirebrand »

9x39 wrote: post #136
bdangubic wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know three families that owned and had to move cause they could not afford to live in the house they own (gerrimandering- related…) owning does not shield you from shit like that, maybe in rural america but definitely not in/around the cities

Almost everyone I know has a significant portion of their wealth in home equity. The renters I know tend to have much lower wealth. This is reflected broadly in the US wealth distribution. You brought up a good point though, and that’s the trap of being house poor. Too many owners fail to look / have not been taught to factor local property taxes and maintenance costs into their homes. My network definitely has peopl…

It is way better to be house poor than to be a renter, because at least the house is generally an appreciating asset

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#156

Post by pton_xd »

bnchrch wrote: post #62

I've seen these critiques for years. and while its not necessarily wrong, I believe it under weights a few points: - Fixing your housing costs against inflation: You can't count on housing price increases, but you can count on inflation. If you buy a house and your mortgage payment is > rent. Overtime it will naturally flip. $1 no longer buys me a chocolate bar, and $800/month no longer gets me a 2 bed apartment. - L…

> Capital Battery: As I build equity in my home it can become an asset I take loans against to pursue other opportunities.

Paying perpetual interest on a non-productive asset doesn't sound like a good idea, to me.

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#157

Post by bluefirebrand »

malshe wrote: post #152
zeroq wrote: post #79

Counterpoint: buying is always better, people just can't afford it. Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. But after you pay your mortgage you still have an asset in your hand. You can pass it on to your children or you can sell it when you're old, downsize (or even rent) and get some cash for your ret…

> Here where I live the minimum price for rent is monthly mortgage installement, meaning that you'll pay for rent at least as much as you'd pay for mortgage. When you own, the mortgage payment is the floor on your monthly cash outlay. by contrast, when you rent, the rent is the ceiling on your monthly cash outlay. So even when they are identical, homeownership is way costlier because of all the other costs one "forge…

> As a renter, you don't have to consider any of these beyond your rent.

As a renter, all of these are baked into your rent :/

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#158

Post by litoE »

bdangubic wrote: post #94
kibwen wrote: post #15

> The Flexibility of Renting Is Undervalued And the stability of buying is undervalued. It's telling that this article frames housing as an investment vehicle rather than as a basic necessity. And it's not just a necessity because it shelters you from the elements and gives you storage for your stuff; it anchors you in a neighborhood and allows you to begin forming a local community. The flexibility of renting that t…

I owned for the last 25 years (3 houses, 8, 8 and 9 years) and am very social person. I do not have a single neighbour friend in all these years. what you are describing is (in vast majority of cases especially in urban areas) just wishful thinking.

This was also our experience while owning three homes in single-family neighborhoods over a 35-year period. We knew our neighbors enough to say "hello", but that was it, and we never associated with them. However, 13 years ago we bought an apartment in a large high-rise condominium building. To our surprise - because that was not a consideration when we moved - we have made many good friends among our neighbors. We go out to dinner together, we invite each other to our homes and to family celebrations. The downside is an aspect of communal living. For example, we needed a new carpet in the building's lobby, so all the owners voted on the color. The majority chose green and we hate green, but we have to live with it.

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#159

Post by malshe »

moooo99 wrote: post #49

First of all, I fundamentally disagree on the notion that buying a home should be considered an investment (I would go as far as to argue that this attitude is part of the reason the real estate markets are so broken in many places of the world). I don't want to be rich and I don't need to be - I just want a place where my kids some day can grow up, where I can enjoy the sun in the garden and invite family and friend…

> Living in Germany, I do have quite a few protections as a renter. My landlord can't arbitrarily hike prices, etc.

A few years ago, I became quite interested in buying an apartment in Germany for rental income. My German friends thought it was a terrible idea. After reading more about it, I realized it would have been a huge mistake!

Re: My thoughts on renting versus buying

#160

Post by PlanksVariable »

bdangubic wrote: post #103
wavemode wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know many homeowners who formed "local communities" with their neighbors. I know a few, but not many. And I know renters who know all their neighbors well. Seems more like a personality trait than something enabled by owning where you live.

100% this - it is exception, small exception that communities can be formed with neighbours. take home-owners associations into the equation and there is higher likelyhood you’ll punch someone than have a beer with them

0% this - neighborhoods with single family homes are more likely to have families, and kids often create friendships that carry over to parent friendships. And if anybody in the neighborhood takes the initiative to plan block parties, dinner parties, etc., that really helps a community take root.

This just doesn't happen as often with apartments, where people are more transient and more likely to be single and/or childless.

Post reply on HN