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EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

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Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#131

Post by tyleo »

adrr wrote: post #79
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American left is one of the most impotent political entities. The only purpose they seem to serve is strengthening the far right by imposing counter productive purity tests and pushing people to vote for the far right options over more centrist ones.

And what purity tests are those?

A visible example is the ACLU questionnaire which covers support for transgender medical care with state resources for detained immigrants.

Harris’s written support was turned into an ad campaign for Trump. You can agree or disagree with the policy but it isn’t a great hill to die on if you want to win elections.

https://www.snopes.com/fact-check/harris-gender-surgeries-ja...

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#132

Post by [deleted] »

hypeatei wrote: post #89
hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The American left is one of the most impotent political entities. The only purpose they seem to serve is strengthening the far right by imposing counter productive purity tests and pushing people to vote for the far right options over more centrist ones.

You're referring to very far left circles that definitely don't represent liberals or more moderate Dems. I agree though, those circles consist of single-issue voters (e.g. palestine) that harm actual progress.

[deleted]

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#133

Post by cardamomo »

the__alchemist wrote: post #37
aaviator42 wrote: post #11

Countless lives over the next decades are going to be lost due to decisions being made by this administration. Deaths and illnesses that otherwise would have prevented using existing frameworks and systems had they not been destroyed.

I don't understand why the left puts up with it. They are too easily distracted by hot-button issues. These are some of the most important issues facing the present and future of our civilization and biosphere. I wish I had a solution, or knew the step to take. I suspect one of the root causes is the narrative, e.g. from news agencies, is being controlled by the propagators of the problem.

I found this post useful in understanding this phenomenon: https://www.offmessage.net/p/how-liberalism-sabotages-itself

The basic gist is that the left is too generous in its understanding of others' intentions, assuming good intentions from all actors long past the point where that's rational.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#134

Post by cluckindan »

avazhi wrote: post #111
trehalose wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why did Dupont and 3M cover up their own evidence of PFAS toxicity for decades? (This is a known fact. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2023/05/425451/makers-pfas-forever... ) Why did they do that, if not for their own profits?

They did cover it up. But there was no evidence that they used PFAS in order to make people sick, which is what the original commenter said. There's a massive difference.

You’re debating the difference between criminal intent to negligently harm and criminal intent to harm.

There is not really much difference from the perspective of those harmed, is there?

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#135

Post by whatever1 »

wood_spirit wrote: post #108
whatever1 wrote: post #66

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

The buyer doesn’t know which company is responsible and which company’s suppliers are responsible etc. This is why we need legislation and enforcement. Imagine another scenario. You are my neighbour. I spill some poison on the ground. Your child gets ill. Am I at fault?

The companies who care will fund 3rd party certification orgs that will check whether the standards are met. They do it already for car safety, responsible raw materials sourcing, recycled content etc.

If it is a feature the customers care about they will market it. But frankly customers just want a better price today.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#136

Post by flkiwi »

recursive wrote: post #99
adrr wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And what purity tests are those?

Probably the identity politics stuff if I had to guess.

Identity politics. Rejecting identity politics for economic justice. Rejecting economic justice for economic revolution. It goes on and on. There are so many overlapping and contradictory purity tests among the various branches of the left, that meaningful opposition from the left is more of a coincidence than anything one can plan for.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#137

Post by magicalist »

avazhi wrote: post #111
trehalose wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So why did Dupont and 3M cover up their own evidence of PFAS toxicity for decades? (This is a known fact. https://www.ucsf.edu/news/2023/05/425451/makers-pfas-forever... ) Why did they do that, if not for their own profits?

They did cover it up. But there was no evidence that they used PFAS in order to make people sick, which is what the original commenter said. There's a massive difference.

> But there was no evidence that they used PFAS in order to make people sick, which is what the original commenter said

No, the said

> If companies can freely poison everyone, profits go up

Which has played out again and again in history. It's a lot cheaper to dump industrial solvents out the back door than pay for proper disposal, and if there's no legal repercussions stopping it, someone can just do it and watch profits go up.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#138

Post by DrewADesign »

smt88 wrote: post #62
the__alchemist wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the left puts up with it. They are too easily distracted by hot-button issues. These are some of the most important issues facing the present and future of our civilization and biosphere. I wish I had a solution, or knew the step to take. I suspect one of the root causes is the narrative, e.g. from news agencies, is being controlled by the propagators of the problem.

My friend pointed out yesterday that the left has lost its "evangelical spirit". It seems to have become political dogma that you can't persuade people to your side -- you can only turn them out to vote. But Charlie Kirk went to the most left places he could think of, debated people, and won some converts. Who on the left does that? Why doesn't anyone drive out to rural football games or country music concerts, have…

> Who on the left does that?

Sanders and AOC. Look at the stops on their Fighting Oligarchy Tour. It’s just that the DNC leadership will do everything in their power to fight actual progressives.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#139

Post by cogman10 »

hshdhdhj4444 wrote: post #45
the__alchemist wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why the left puts up with it. They are too easily distracted by hot-button issues. These are some of the most important issues facing the present and future of our civilization and biosphere. I wish I had a solution, or knew the step to take. I suspect one of the root causes is the narrative, e.g. from news agencies, is being controlled by the propagators of the problem.

The American left is one of the most impotent political entities. The only purpose they seem to serve is strengthening the far right by imposing counter productive purity tests and pushing people to vote for the far right options over more centrist ones.

This is hogwash.

The american left by and large is simply unrepresented. Democrats have represented center right positions since clinton.

If anything, it's those centrist democrats that use purity tests as much as possible to eject the left from the party.

As a good example of that, consider the case of Al Franken vs Andrew Cuomo. Franken was pretty progressive, so when it came out that he had a picture in bad taste where he mocked squeezing boobs, gone. 24/7 news about how he's really a monster and the worst person in the world.

Meanwhile, Cuomo has multiple credible allegations of sexual harassment and who does the party STILL back even after he lost the primary? He literally got endorsements from Democrats who shed tears because of the Al Franken photo.

The same thing happened to Bernie Sanders. The centrist dems and media started circulating garbage about how he was sexist over a comment he didn't make.

Re: EPA Seeks to Eliminate Critical PFAS Drinking Water Protections

#140

Post by hypeatei »

DrewADesign wrote: post #110
hypeatei wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're referring to very far left circles that definitely don't represent liberals or more moderate Dems. I agree though, those circles consist of single-issue voters (e.g. palestine) that harm actual progress.

Yeah the centrist dems— the vast majority of currently elected democrats— are really knocking it out of the park. It’s the tiny handful of actual progressives that snuck through the DNC’s fortress walls that are messing everything up with their pesky fringe principles… that also poll extremely well with the general public.

> tiny handful of actual progressives ... that are messing everything up

I never said that. There were many far-leftists who sat out in 2024 due to Palestine, proclaiming that Kamala would've been just as bad or worse than Trump on that issue which is ludicrous. Needless to say, I'm not opposed to progressive ideals but the reality is that they're more focused on principles than getting elected.

> that also poll extremely well with the general public

If that's the case, why don't we see more candidates like Bernie/AOC/Mamdani being elected across the country? I can probably guess your next is answer is that the DNC and/or billionaires suppress their campaigns?

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