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EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

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Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#81

Post by V__ »

kulahan wrote: post #8
tietjens wrote: post #2

Article claims Germany is beginning to shift. I wouldn’t count on that. Despite having to import all of their energy aside from renewables, there is a wide-spread suspicion of nuclear here. The CDU made a lot of noise about it while they were in the opposition, but turning those closed plants back on is highly unlikely. Very costly and I’m not certain the expertise can be hired.

With AI on the horizon and each server farm using as much energy as a medium-sized city, I have no idea how they hope to meet demand otherwise, unless the plan is just some equivalent to "drill baby drill".

I willing to wager that the AI bubble will burst before you could even begin to build power plants for them.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#82

Post by Eji1700 »

awalsh128 wrote: post #56
yellowapple wrote: post #14

[flagged]

Whatever people think about Greenpeace I think it's a stretch to say they are a plant. They just lost a lawsuit recently and have to pay $660 mil for defamation against an oil company. It was a pretty ugly case.

There's this weird dissonance where people don't seem to want to admit that someone championing the same cause as them can be really really dumb about it. Must be a plant, couldn't possibly be that a lot of people take stances on positions due to their emotional reaction and don't always look at the evidence first. That's just them, not *US*.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#83

Post by ben_w »

kulahan wrote: post #18
toomuchtodo wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You limit data center power demand until the AI bubble pops. Peak Bubble - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=45218790 - September 2025 US Data center projects blocked or delayed amid local opposition - https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=44097350 - May 2025

Cool, your country fell way behind every other developed nation in this and you've missed out on a huge industry. In the end, your citizens will still use the products, they'll just probably end up having to pay more for the same functionality.

Given how fast compute needs replacing, it's not much of a fall behind.

Citizens will indeed use them anyway, but there's already free models that are OK and which only need 8x current normal device RAM. Bubble bursts tomorrow? Currently-SOTA models on budget phones by the end of the decade.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#84

Post by jama211 »

I’m totally fine with nuclear honestly, but I feel like I don’t understand something. No one seems to be able to give me a straight answer with proper facts that explain why we couldn’t just make a whole load more renewable energy generators instead. Sure, it might cost more, but in theory any amount of power a nuclear plant would generate could also be achieved with large amounts of renewables no?

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#85

Post by kulahan »

vslira wrote: post #36
blueflow wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> it's easy to store (literally kitty litter) I showed your comment to someone who is currently writing their PhD on how to store nuclear waste safely. I barely understood half of what they said in the following rant, but they referenced the situation of the Sellafield site several times.

I swear I'm not trolling: do you mind asking them about simply dumping it (in leaded concrete barrels etc) in the deep ocean? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ocean_disposal_of_radioactive_... makes it seem not such a big deal

I've heard of this solution before. I think the greater concern is that other people might gain access by diving down and gathering it back up. I've heard a solution to that is to put it in some container that's highly conductive so it superheats and melts through some amount of the seafloor.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#86

Post by pkoiralap »

philipkglass wrote: post #37
pkoiralap wrote: post #16

Asking because I don't know. How is enrichment governed? Say for instance if a country is only using it for energy vs defense/offense. And are there elements that can be specifically used for energy vs otherwise? Last I remember, having access to enriched uranium was grounds for a country to bomb another one.

The only way to ensure that a civil uranium enrichment program remains strictly civil is via transparency and monitoring. A country that has mastered uranium enrichment technology for fueling civil power reactors could use the same technology to produce bomb-grade uranium. It actually takes more work to enrich natural uranium into fuel for power reactors than it takes to further enrich power reactor fuel into bomb ma…

This is scary. so the extra effort to move from, say, 20% to 85% is relatively small compared with the effort to get up to 20% in the first place. Might as well build a feature into the reactor so that it only works with <=20%

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#87

Post by nilslindemann »

exabrial wrote: post #64
binaryturtle wrote: post #13

This is clean, until something goes catastrophically wrong. (Which eventually it will. The more reactors, the more chances for it to happen.)

You are incorrect fortunately. Western designs are safe, most Soviet-era ones are/were not. It's unfortunate that nuclear power still has this stigma, as it's like saying "all cars are unsafe" while comparing the crash test ratings of a modern sedan to a 1960's chevy bel aire.

Then why did Fukushima happen?

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#88

Post by ahmeneeroe-v2 »

V__ wrote: post #67
yellowapple wrote: post #14

[flagged]

I agree that the fears are overblown, but at the same time the hype for nuclear is just weird. It's more complex, more expensive, less adjustable and more risky. Even the new hip small modular reactors are many years away. The LCOE (Levelized Cost of Electricity) for solar with battery is already better than current solutions, and dropping. Wind and battery closely following. There is no way that nuclear technology w…

Solar and battery have had immense investment to bring down that LCOE. Where can we get if we invest similarly in nuclear.

lol at wind though. that's not real.

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#89

Post by throwbigdata »

Eji1700 wrote: post #82
awalsh128 wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Whatever people think about Greenpeace I think it's a stretch to say they are a plant. They just lost a lawsuit recently and have to pay $660 mil for defamation against an oil company. It was a pretty ugly case.

There's this weird dissonance where people don't seem to want to admit that someone championing the same cause as them can be really really dumb about it. Must be a plant, couldn't possibly be that a lot of people take stances on positions due to their emotional reaction and don't always look at the evidence first. That's just them , not *US*.

e.g. PETA

Re: EU court rules nuclear energy is clean energy

#90

Post by jltsiren »

yellowapple wrote: post #14

[flagged]

I believe Greenpeace leaders and activists genuinely consider themselves environmentalists. As an organization, Greenpeace is also pretty strict on declining funding that could compromise its independence.

However, it's likely that Greenpeace benefits from indirect support from the fossil fuel industry and petrostates. If you get too deep into Realpolitik, you start believing that ideologies and convictions only hinder and weaken you. Then it becomes acceptable to support groups that are ideologically opposed to you, as long as it advances your strategic interests. There have always been ways of manipulating the public sentiment, and social media has made it easier to do that without linking the manipulation back to you.

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