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The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

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Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#21

Post by andreasvc »

X-Istence wrote: post #20
andreasvc wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Once no more unused addresses turn up, they can start economizing on the used ones too. For example my university gives a publicly routed IP address to EVERY computer, even though most are completely firewalled off.

IBM has an entire /8 that they use internally for addressing their computers, none of them are publicly routable or even publicly accessible. Even if they were to start announcing them or selling them it would be a HUGE project for IBM internally to make sure that their computers aren't going out on the web for internal resources, and it becomes an huge issue of having to renumber. Unfortunately there is no good way…

I see that it would be a lot of work, but so will switching to IPv6 be. The question is: which will be worse? which will actually happen? I don't know.

I'm probably forgetting a lot of things but to me it would seem doable to switch to private LAN addresses using DHCP and NAT, as long as there are no hardcoded IPs lingering around (but only hostnames which can be updated in a central location).

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#23

Post by X-Istence »

s_henry_paulson wrote: post #15
forgotusername wrote: post #5

I'm not sure about the definition of 'unused', just because a network is not visible from the Internet and has no publicly registered ASNs doesn't mean its numbers are not in private use (which AFAIK, was always a legitimate use-case for getting an allocation, and in many ways preferable to reusing RFC1918 space). Added to that, even if it was seeing only minuscule internal use, the UK government's IT project reputat…

If there are no networks defined, as far as RIPE is concerned, it's un-used. We just got audited for RIPE for exactly this reason, and they made us specify details for all of the networks we use on our allocation to be allowed to keep our address space.

That's not the case for older legacy networks. Those don't fall under the purview of RIPE as they were allocated before RIPE existed.

I'm wondering if RIPE can even do anything regarding that netblock in terms of possibly pulling it and re-allocating it.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#24

Post by wmf »

andreasvc wrote: post #21
X-Istence wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

IBM has an entire /8 that they use internally for addressing their computers, none of them are publicly routable or even publicly accessible. Even if they were to start announcing them or selling them it would be a HUGE project for IBM internally to make sure that their computers aren't going out on the web for internal resources, and it becomes an huge issue of having to renumber. Unfortunately there is no good way…

I see that it would be a lot of work, but so will switching to IPv6 be. The question is: which will be worse? which will actually happen? I don't know. I'm probably forgetting a lot of things but to me it would seem doable to switch to private LAN addresses using DHCP and NAT, as long as there are no hardcoded IPs lingering around (but only hostnames which can be updated in a central location).

The problem comes when two companies using 10.0.0.0/8 decide to merge. For example, IBM acquires multiple companies every year.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#25

Post by aquark »

Retric wrote: post #17
wtallis wrote: post #4

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's still a finite number of IP addresses that is below all reasonable expectations for how many devices will be wanting an IP address. Reclaiming unused blocks just softens the shock by making the exhaustion less sudden and more gradual. We're still definitely going to run out.

There are a little over 4 billion IPv4 addresses. If they cost even 10c / month the vast majority of them would still be unused. However, because they where free well over half of them are simply wasted and we are "running out".

My ISP feels it is 'reasonable' to charge $10\month for one.

$10 x 4B x 12 months would solve the national debt in just a few years...

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#26

Post by tptacek »

There are lots of stories like this. Many of them are worse; at least you can imagine that the UK is holding these addresses in reserve. There are companies with giant allocations that are holding them so that they can give every desktop and every printer in their enterprise a routable address; others are doing the same thing, but also operating flat, unrouted networks.

More evidence for the core problem: fiat allocation doesn't work. If there was a functioning, liquid, accessible market for advertisable IP prefixes, you wouldn't have to convince anyone that a /8 was worth $1bn; it just would be.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#27

Post by wglb »

jrockway wrote: post #18

Who cares? IPv4 is a dead technology and this is like complaining that the UK has a bunch of fax machines in storage somewhere. 10 years ago, this would have been a waste. Now it doesn't even matter. Even Comcast supports IPv6.

So how do you envision the transition taking place? Given that 6 and 4 talk past each other.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#28

Post by anonymouz »

andreasvc wrote: post #7
webwanderings wrote: post #2

Eventually in the future, people will come to realize the over-exaggeration of running out of ipv4 addresses. The unused blocks will come out of woodwork from everywhere. Well, I hope my opinion is wrong.

Once no more unused addresses turn up, they can start economizing on the used ones too. For example my university gives a publicly routed IP address to EVERY computer, even though most are completely firewalled off.

And this is exactly how it is supposed to be! The solution is switching to IPv6, not more NAT and ever more complicated routing to support the fragmentation of networks.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#29

Post by cbs »

We need to quit looking back at the v4 space like this, bite the bullet and deploy v6. It's already in use on some networks, and inevitable on 95+% of the rest.

The amount of time spent bike-shedding "well, v4 isn't running out as fast as they say it is" or "NAT will save us" (lol, no) that time is better spent deploying v6. For many installations, its actually not that big of a deal to do.

Re: The UK has an entire IPv4 /8 that it isn't using

#30

Post by wmf »

lucb1e wrote: post #22

I find this funny. The IANA holds 15 IPv4 /8 blocks, even mentions "Reserved for future use" when whoissing, and nobody cares.

Not really. All the blocks that are marked "reserved" are more like "unusable"; e.g. real equipment cannot use class E. People have been over this stuff with a fine-toothed comb. http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv4-address-space/ipv4-addr...
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