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Qwen3-Next

qwen.ai

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Re: Qwen3-Next

#11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

New arch seems cool, and it's amazing that we have these published in the open. That being said, qwen models are extremely overfit. They can do some things well, but they are very limited in generalisation, compared to closed models. I don't know if it's simply scale, or training recipes, or regimes. But if you test it ood the models utterly fail to deliver, where the closed models still provide value.

Could you give some practical examples? I don't know what Qwen's 36T-token training set is like, so I don't know what it's overfitting to...

Take math and coding for example:

- in math, if they can solve a problem, or a class of problems, they'll solve it. If you use a "thinking" model + maj@x, you'll get strong results. But if you try for example to have the model consider a particular way or method of exploring a problem, it'll default to "solving" mode. It's near impossible to have it do something else with a math problem, other than solving it. Say "explore this part, in this way, using this method". Can't do it. It'll maybe play a bit, but then enter "solving" mdoe and continue to solve it as it was trained.

In practice, this means that "massive parallel" test time compute becomes harder to do with these models, because you can't "guide" them towards certain aspects of a problem. They are extremely "stubborn".

- in coding it's even more obvious. Ask them to produce any 0shot often tested and often shown things (spa, game, visualisation, etc) - and they do it. Convincingly.

But ask them to look at a piece of code and extract meaning, and they fail. Or ask them to reverse an implementation. Figure out what a function does and reverse its use, or make it do something else, and they fail.

Re: Qwen3-Next

#12

Complete newbie here - some questions, if I may! This stuff can run on a local machine without internet access, correct? And it can pretty much match Nano Banana? https://github.com/PicoTrex/Awesome-Nano-Banana-images/blob/... Also -- what are the specs for a machine to run it (even if slowly!)

what you mean is Qwen Image and Qwen Image Edit, you can run it on local machine, using Draw Things application for example.

the model discussed here is text model, so similar to ChatGPT. You can also run it on your local machine, but not yet, as apps need to be updated with Qwen 3 Next support (llama.cpp, Ollama, etc)

Re: Qwen3-Next

#13

Complete newbie here - some questions, if I may! This stuff can run on a local machine without internet access, correct? And it can pretty much match Nano Banana? https://github.com/PicoTrex/Awesome-Nano-Banana-images/blob/... Also -- what are the specs for a machine to run it (even if slowly!)

This model can be run completely offline, yes. You'll need anywhere from 60-200 gb of RAM (either VRAM for high speeds, or a combination of VRAM and RAM, or just CPU+RAM). The active params are really low (3B) so it'll likely run fine even on CPU. Should get 10-15+t/s even on old DDR4 systems. Offload some experts to a GPU (can be as low as 8-16gb) and you'll see greater speeds.

This has nothing to do with nano banana, or image generation. For that you want the qwen image edit[1] models.

1 - https://huggingface.co/Qwen/Qwen-Image-Edit

Re: Qwen3-Next

#15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you give some practical examples? I don't know what Qwen's 36T-token training set is like, so I don't know what it's overfitting to...

Take math and coding for example: - in math, if they can solve a problem, or a class of problems, they'll solve it. If you use a "thinking" model + maj@x, you'll get strong results. But if you try for example to have the model consider a particular way or method of exploring a problem, it'll default to "solving" mode. It's near impossible to have it do something else with a math problem, other than solving it. Say "e…

It sounds like some people.

Re: Qwen3-Next

#16

Complete newbie here - some questions, if I may! This stuff can run on a local machine without internet access, correct? And it can pretty much match Nano Banana? https://github.com/PicoTrex/Awesome-Nano-Banana-images/blob/... Also -- what are the specs for a machine to run it (even if slowly!)

> This stuff can run on a local machine without internet access, correct?

Yes.

> And it can pretty much match Nano Banana?

No, Qwen3-Next is not a multimodal model, it has no image generation function.

Re: Qwen3-Next

#17
post #5

Coolest part of Qwen3-Next, in my opinion, (after the linear attention parts) is that they do MTP without adding another un-embedding matrix. Deepseek R1 also has a MTP layer (layer 61) https://huggingface.co/deepseek-ai/DeepSeek-R1/blob/main/mod... But Deepseek R1 adds embed_tokens and shared_head.head tensors, which are [129280, 7168] or about 2GB in size at FP8. Qwen3-Next doesn't have that: https://huggingface.co…

What kind of benefit does Multi-Token Prediction bring to the inference side? Is it only relevant in pretraining efficiency?

Re: Qwen3-Next

#19
llm -m qwen3-next-80b-a3b-thinking "An ASCII of spongebob"

Here's a classic ASCII art representation of SpongeBob SquarePants:

     .------.
    /  o o  \
   |         |
   |  \___/  |
    \_______/


  llm -m chutes/Qwen/Qwen3-Coder-480B-A35B-Instruct-FP8 \
  "An ASCII of spongebob"

  Here's an ASCII art of SpongeBob SquarePants:

      .--..--..--..--..--..--.
    .' \  (`._   (_)     _   \
  .'    |  '._)         (_)  |
  \ _.')\      .----..--.'  /
  |(_.'  |    /    .-\-.  \---.
  \     0|    |   ( O| O) |    |
   |  _  |  .--.____.'._.-.  |
   \ (_) | o         -` .-`  |
    |    \   |`-._ _ _ _ _\ /
    \    |   |  `. |_||_|   |
     | o |    \_       \    |     -.   .-.
     |.-.  \    `--..-'   O |     `.`-' .'
   _.'  .' |     `-.-'      /-.__   ' .-'
  .' `-.` '.|='=.='=.='=.='=|._/_ `-'.'
  `-._  `.  |________/\_____|    `-.'
     .'   ).| '=' '='\/ '=' |
     `._.`  '---------------'
             //___\   //___\
               ||       ||
               ||_.-.   ||_.-.
              (_.--__) (_.--__)


Meta: I generated a few dozen spongebobs last night on the same model and NONE where as good as this. Most started well but collapsed into decoherence at the end - missing the legs off. Then this morning the very same prompt to the same model API produced a perfect bob on the first attempt. Can utilization affect response quality, if all else remains constant? Or was it just random luck?

Edit: Ok, the very next attempt, a few minutes later, failed, so I guess it is just random, and you have about a 1 in 10 chance of getting a perfect spongebob from qwen3-coder, and ~0 chance with qwen3-next.

Re: Qwen3-Next

#20

how much vram it requires?

Thats not a meaningful question. Models can be quantized to fit into much smaller memory requirements, and not all MoE layers (in MoE models) have to be offloaded to VRAM to maintain performance.
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