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Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

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Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#111
post #87

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Different, but probably not as orthogonal as one might think. E.g. cooperating ethics had been necessary for the further development of human populations intelligence (and culture, technology, material wealth, nutrition etc that lead to further increases in intelligence). So lack of ethics might be a sign of intelligence, but it's also a parasitic intelligence that benefits the individual, and beyond certain level an…

Aren't there only two rules that all groups follow in the animal kingdom? - don't lie too often - don't kill members of the in group Seems like these would be required for any group to survive, which makes sense why they are universal. All other rules/ethics seem to be dependent on resource scarcity.

>All other rules/ethics seem to be dependent on resource scarcity

That doesn't make the rest of the ethics (as a rule and mechanism) any less useful to help nurture the species and its intelligence.

It just makes them not absolute but dynamic and condition dependent. But given a condition (e.g. resource scarcity) the appropriate ethics retain the utility we talk about.

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#112
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's expected. No one will release a worse model.

Not a cheaper one, or better in some ways, or lower latency, etc?

They do that too but right now it is an arms race as well.

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#113
post #53

[I'm on the SWE-bench team] Multiple people have looked into this, for example right in that thread: https://github.com/SWE-bench/SWE-bench/issues/465#issuecomme... This issue had affected a tiny fraction of existing agents in a tiny fraction of their runs. And we've now issued a fix. This is a natural part of running a benchmark, I'm sure tiny things like this will keep on getting discovered and we'll keep on fixing…

> This is a natural part of running a benchmark, I'm sure tiny things like this will keep on getting discovered and we'll keep on fixing them. You're all extremely clever and I can't seem to understand how you missed thinking about such a simple edge case. It's like building a chroot and then allowing `cd ..` to break out of it. What other maybe extremely basic edge cases were missed? > This doesn't change the overal…

> other maybe extremely basic edge cases were missed?

The whole testing enterprise is kind of stupid. Pray tell, if their stupid little benchmark said, "this niche little smaller model performs the best" would anyone listen to it? No.

The thing that is fucked about benchmarks is that we only pay attention to the ones that match these vibes: "The latest models from the biggest companies should perform the best." That's why they are stupid. They could be the most brilliantly administered (they're not), nail execution (they don't), but it still has to confirm vibes.

And listen these guys are serious academics, they're very smart people, but on the other hand, you know, I'm still right. The team doesn't have a secular, objective explanation for why nobody talks about benchmarks that don't confirm the biases of the public for what should perform well. Three people are commenting on just this post alone, but the stuff that I am saying: crickets.

The only reasonable explanation for "why do people ignore [LLM tests that show that some non-giant corporation LLM is the best]?" trades on cultural and humanities stuff that are outside their expertise. They don't see that the stuff the humanities people are saying generalizes to what they do. That would be too inconvenient. Every testing system suffers from this bias anomaly, it's just easier to talk about this with something secular like LLMs compared to say, tests of children.

They hear biases and they're like, "something something, Algorithmic Justice League." Their brains turn off and they think that until someone gets in front of Congress and points a finger, nothing in the humanities applies to them. Wrong. The Princeton lab has probably met with a lot of humanities people, and there was a lot of head shaking and agreement, but it's not like, something that tells them that their whole enterprise doesn't make sense makes them stop and pursue anything else. It's just in one ear and out the other.

Doing free tests for giant corporations to market their shit, and then toiling away in obscurity when the tests do not market huge corporation's shit: it doesn't make sense period. But that's what they're doing.

If you need a simple theory for how Big LLM performs so well on SWE-Bench, it's as simple as: well they've seen the questions by running them, obviously, and someone has also tested the questions in their own personal chatbot sessions sometime in the past, and these are online systems, and OpenAI, Anthropic and Google run ETL pipelines that paraphrase user data for salient inputs to train on, so of course, they've all been trained on the test set. In reality, if these things were so fucking good as SWE Bench said, they'd be making a bajillion bucks making all this enterprise software, or they'd show even 1 novel math discovery, or whatever. But they do not have something as powerful as the benchmarks say, so that doesn't happen.

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#114
post #99

swe-bench's bigger problems include (1) labs train on the test and (2) 50% of the tickets are from django; it's not a representative dataset even if all you care about is Python. I created a new benchmark from Java commits that are new in the past 6 months to add some variety: https://brokk.ai/power-ranking

No GLM?

no, I'm pretty skeptical that it's better than qwen3 coder

but if you have evidence that it could be, I'm down to test it

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I meant it as a hint for anyone inclined to dig deeper. It's a possibility rather than something we can confidently dismiss.

If it's a possibility and you don't want to dig deeper better to sit out and not comment anything at all, lest you risk defamation. Thinking out loud also doesn't make defamation acceptable.

It's fine, this is an american site so JAQing is in fact safe under free speech.

You're welcome to ask b "would none rid me of this meddlesome priest" with no fear

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#116

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because they are. But stochastic parrots are awesome.

I challenge you! Try giving this exact prompt to GPT-5-Thinking (medium or high reasoning if API). It is able to (without external code tools) solve a never before seen cypher that is not present in its training data. I think this pretty clearly demonstrates that the “stochastic parrot” is no longer an apt description of its capabilities in generalization: ———— You are given a character-by-character decode table `map…

That's exactly the sort of thing a "stochastic parrot" would excel at. This could easily serve as a textbook example of the attention mechanism.

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#117
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a natural part of running a benchmark, I'm sure tiny things like this will keep on getting discovered and we'll keep on fixing them. You're all extremely clever and I can't seem to understand how you missed thinking about such a simple edge case. It's like building a chroot and then allowing `cd ..` to break out of it. What other maybe extremely basic edge cases were missed? > This doesn't change the overal…

> You're all extremely clever and I can't seem to understand how you missed thinking about such a simple edge case [...] I wouldn't be surprised if they left this loophole on purpose to give some (their?) agents extra leverage. Edit #1: I didn't mean to imply bad intent; just thinking out loud. Edit #2: Please, downvote responsibly. I deserve every one. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0FHEeG_uq5Y

never attribute something to malice which can be attributed to incompetence. Basically, this has been utilized plenty of times by some really smart folk to get what they want.

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#118
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This is a natural part of running a benchmark, I'm sure tiny things like this will keep on getting discovered and we'll keep on fixing them. You're all extremely clever and I can't seem to understand how you missed thinking about such a simple edge case. It's like building a chroot and then allowing `cd ..` to break out of it. What other maybe extremely basic edge cases were missed? > This doesn't change the overal…

I'm also on the SWE-bench team. This was simply a classic bug. We had code before that we believed was sufficient to hide / remove future GitHub history and it turns out it was not. We've patched it.

[dead]

Re: Top model scores may be skewed by Git history leaks in SWE-bench

#119
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They really did a "trust me bro" and "do your own research" huh

the strange thing to me is that people would have it any other way. if you don't trust someone, why would you trust them to do the research for you? bit of entitlement if you ask me

It's not that people are entitled. It's that "do your own research" is usually a cop out when you yourself don't understand the answer or are hiding it
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