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Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

nytimes.com

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Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#101

Post by alttag »

luu wrote: post #52
chii wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a balancing act - but i guess grants is worse than loans. Granting "free" money will indeed cause problems, but a loan that is required to be repaid seems like the right way to go in the long term, provided that after the higher education is completed the individual in question is able to actually provide value.

This has it exactly backwards. Consider this simple (and very simplified) example. The NPV of college is $100k. The marginal student can scrape together $10k to go to college. The marginal cost of a student is less than $10k for the college. How much will the college charge? $10k. What's the benefit to the student? $90k. What if an $89.9k subsidized grant is available? Now the college can charge $99.9k. What's the be…

I agree with the points in your analysis, but putting your example in a competitive marketplace should cause prices to reduce to the marginal costs.

Perhaps some of the local colleges can provide at that price, but we've created a system that values name-brand education, and the artificial scarcity at the top (partly, to protect brand identity) mitigates some of the downward price pressure.

Even still, if marginal costs are a fraction of tuition (and I believe they are, often) why are tuition rates increasing so rapidly?

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#102

Post by Retric »

luu wrote: post #99
riffraff wrote: post #83

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I want to believe your statement, but could you share some references for it? I mean, some clue that education has been the driving force in the growth of east asian countries, rather than internal/external factors of other kinds.

Here's an article which references a handful of papers that present the opposite point of view: http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CA640.htm I'll quote a few relevant snippets from the article, for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole thing. Challenging the conventional view, there is actually a striking global correspondence between the world economic slowdown since 1973 and ever-increasing levels of…

There is no silver bullet when it comes to growth. Corruption is probably the largest roadblock to growth, as evidenced by China's relatively slow rise to power compared with the Post WWII wave of Asian economic growth. Infrastructure and Education are necessary, but over investment in either tends to create stagnation. Much like the balancing act between slowing wealth to accumulate and allowing an Aristocracy to form and block progress.

PS: There is plenty of talk about the value of rich people investing in the next waves of technology. However, Moving into the realm of 8+ figure incomes only a tiny fraction of that spending ends up on the type of mass producible goods that lead to economic growth, instead buying things like gardens or Yachts that quickly lose value.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#103

Post by gvb »

Dylan16807 wrote: post #57

With every added student, the school district gets another $7,250 from the state. That's per year, right? That's very close to the $4,200/semester number. So the college payments are almost equivalent to extending education from K12 to K16. That means that this could be done, even without donations, across the country.

There is a substantial difference: the $7,250 from the state doesn't come out of thin air, it comes out of the pockets of the Michigan taxpayers. The $8,400 per year for college comes out of the "Kalamazoo Promise" donation, not out of taxpayers' pockets.

I am not aware of any state that has been able to convince taxpayers to fund the additional four years[1]. The "Kalamazoo Promise" sidesteps that issue via private funding[2].

[1] States typically (heavily) subsidize college tuition for in-state students.

[2] The "Kalamazoo Promise" implicitly relies on Michigan state college tuition subsidies to achieve their tuition payment promise. https://www.kalamazoopromise.com/ParticipatingCollegesUniver...

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#104

Post by szpilman »

I usually let out some man-tears on especially touching movie scenes, book passages, music verses and family occasions, but I'm pretty much sure this is the first time I couldn't hold it while reading an article. At least 5 times.

"The Promise" sounds like some utopian sci-fi plot, and the childrens' thank you notes for their unseen benefactors are more than heartwarming. These kind of investments that empower and multiply their effects are the farthest reaching long-term, and just brilliant.

Now I want to be a billionaire.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#105

Post by JPKab »

alttag wrote: post #7

Wow. That's neat. I once had a conversation with a state legislator where he argued it wasn't the responsibility of government to provide grant and loan opportunities for higher education, and that by doing so, the federal government was disincentivizing saving and investing. Instead, he argued universities should be more market driven (which I will concede might introduce more price competition in the face of rapidl…

As a guy who grew up in an impoverished, rural family and received Pell grants and federal loans for my college costs, can someone explain to me why articles like this talk about students not being able to go to college without the donation? Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good grades/etc? (IF SOMETHING HAS CHANGED, AND POOR KIDS WITH GOOD GRADES ARE UNABLE TO GET FEDERAL LOANS AND GRANTS, THEN I AM GOING TO DO WHATEVER I, AS AN AVERAGE MIDDLE CLASS CITIZEN, CAN DO TO FIX THIS.) I realize that we've had an economic collapse, and I think this is a fantastic program, but statements like those in the article distract from the fact that poor areas of this nation fail not because students can't AFFORD college, but because they can't GET IN, due to substandard educations and (to some degree) bad parenting.

Regarding my comment on bad parenting, before people crucify me for blaming the victim, I assure you that a lot of poor, uneducated parents actively interfere (knowingly or not) with their children's educational chances. They do this mainly through ignorance (leaving TV on at night in child's room, never reading to them when they are young, not helping with homework, putting children to bed too late, etc.) I've watched this happen with most of my friend's growing up.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#106

Post by nekojima »

Retric wrote: post #102
luu wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here's an article which references a handful of papers that present the opposite point of view: http://www.spiked-online.com/Printable/0000000CA640.htm I'll quote a few relevant snippets from the article, for anyone who doesn't want to read the whole thing. Challenging the conventional view, there is actually a striking global correspondence between the world economic slowdown since 1973 and ever-increasing levels of…

There is no silver bullet when it comes to growth. Corruption is probably the largest roadblock to growth, as evidenced by China's relatively slow rise to power compared with the Post WWII wave of Asian economic growth. Infrastructure and Education are necessary, but over investment in either tends to create stagnation. Much like the balancing act between slowing wealth to accumulate and allowing an Aristocracy to fo…

"Corruption is probably the largest roadblock to growth, as evidenced by China's relatively slow rise to power"

China's slow rise to power from 1949 to 1979 wasn't because of corruption, but incompetence and policies, practices & ideology that was incompatible with economic growth, positive reform & capitalism. The anti-capitalist purges in the early 1950s lead to a wave of Shanghaiese & others moving to Hong Kong, to help boost its economy. There were some positive reforms in China to help boost economic growth and living standards, but those are overshadowed by the massively incompetent programs that destroyed the economy and country for thirty years, this after decades of war and civil war.

If anything, the level of corruption has massive increased since the reform period began in 1979. Though that may be the type of corruption has changed, from food, job, marriage, life, location & housing to money as the prime difference in the types of corruption being most prevalent.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#107

Post by cobrausn »

Vivtek wrote: post #81
alttag wrote: post #7

Wow. That's neat. I once had a conversation with a state legislator where he argued it wasn't the responsibility of government to provide grant and loan opportunities for higher education, and that by doing so, the federal government was disincentivizing saving and investing. Instead, he argued universities should be more market driven (which I will concede might introduce more price competition in the face of rapidl…

More market-driven? It's only since people started arguing that colleges should be run like businesses that tuition has exploded. There are things that shouldn't be market-driven. Look at Germany for an example - no vouchers needed to go to college there because the government simply pays for everybody (even foreigners). And the economy is doing fine.

Germany is a wonderful cherry-picked example, but it is hardly the only country in Europe to pay for higher education - many of the others aren't in such great financial shape.

http://www.time.com/time/world/article/0,8599,1976724,00.htm...

I would love to see higher education made accessible to everyone with the ability to do so, and would love to see college cost a lot less, even if it is too late for me (6 figures of student loan debt). But just saying 'the government should pay for it look at Germany' is a far too simplistic outlook, especially in the face of crippling yearly deficits that aren't showing any signs of going away under either party's 'leadership'.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#108

Post by mikeyouse »

dfriedmn wrote: post #40
MikeCapone wrote: post #39

If I had to guess at a glance, I'd say maybe Chuck Feeney: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chuck_Feeney#Education

Oh come on, we know it's Derek Jeter. Jeter IS kalamazoo.

Jeter's net worth is something near $125mm, the Promise campaign has given out over $30mm so far. As nice of a guy as Jeter is, I don't think he's given up 1/4 of his wealth.

Smarter money is on the Stryker family (http://www.mlive.com/business/west-michigan/index.ssf/2010/0...) and the Upjohn family. The combined wealth of the two families is ~$10B and they have pretty strong Kalamazoo ties.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#109

Post by SatvikBeri »

JPKab wrote: post #105
alttag wrote: post #7

Wow. That's neat. I once had a conversation with a state legislator where he argued it wasn't the responsibility of government to provide grant and loan opportunities for higher education, and that by doing so, the federal government was disincentivizing saving and investing. Instead, he argued universities should be more market driven (which I will concede might introduce more price competition in the face of rapidl…

As a guy who grew up in an impoverished, rural family and received Pell grants and federal loans for my college costs, can someone explain to me why articles like this talk about students not being able to go to college without the donation? Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good…

Ramit Sethi argues that the belief that you can't go to college due to a lack of money is largely misplaced, at least in the USA.

I'm sure there are edge cases where it really is impossible to get funding, but I know several people who went to very expensive schools and got it nearly all paid through various scholarships. NB: most of these scholarships were not granted by the college itself, but by an outside agency, whereas most people I know seem to only apply for scholarships through the college.

1: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/college-at-stanfor... 2: http://www.iwillteachyoutoberich.com/blog/some-people-think-...

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#110

Post by BCM43 »

JPKab wrote: post #105
alttag wrote: post #7

Wow. That's neat. I once had a conversation with a state legislator where he argued it wasn't the responsibility of government to provide grant and loan opportunities for higher education, and that by doing so, the federal government was disincentivizing saving and investing. Instead, he argued universities should be more market driven (which I will concede might introduce more price competition in the face of rapidl…

As a guy who grew up in an impoverished, rural family and received Pell grants and federal loans for my college costs, can someone explain to me why articles like this talk about students not being able to go to college without the donation? Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good…

Has something changed since 1999 when I, with zero money or savings in my family, was able to go to college on government loans/grants based on the fact that I got in due to good grades/etc?

Yes. College tuition costs have been rising way faster than the rate of inflation.

Only one source, a search engine will find you many more. http://inflationdata.com/Inflation/Inflation_Articles/Educat...

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