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Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

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Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#21

Post by tguvot »

ok1984 wrote: post #20
cbeach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Gaza were rid of the Islamist terrorists that lead then then it would be better for Israel and also much better for the innocent youth of Gaza. Unfortunately there is no way for the innocent youth of Gaza to rid themselves of Hamas. In fact Hamas actively endoctrinates the youth. The only way for Gazan youth to be saved from a cycle of terrorist-led hatred is for Israel (or another developed power) to remove the t…

Don’t you think that what is happening will lead to a generation that hates their neighbours even more? If I were in charge, I would create the circumstances that prevent poverty, create work, and encourage cooperation between both nations hoping that time will heal the hate and anger that both sides accumulated over the years, this requires wisdom and patience from the political party that is smart enough to underst…

unrwa schools teach since 50s about liberation of entire palestine from jews by force[0], jihad and glorification of martyrs[9]. change of curriculum was one of main israeli demands since oslo days because it was obvious that when you teach hate in schools it's not going to end up well for anyone. not sure that "even more hate" is something that people in Israel care about now.

Israel was biggest employer of palestinians from gaza and west bank. In fact, week before oct 7 number of work permits for gazans went up by 10k or 15k. This was because there were thought that economically stable gaza will be less likely violent and that hamas is somewhat interested in state building and prosperity. In aftermath of oct 7th turned out that workers from gaza (with permits) were scouting areas where they worked in order to make a detailed maps for attack and a bunch of attackers actually carried work permits.

when israel left gaza in 2005, inside israel was popular expression that "now that palestinians have complete self rule there, it's up to them what to build there, singapore or somali".

there is an israeli investor [1] who created design center in gaza, donated there money to hospital and employed palestinians from gaza and west bank. he daugher was murdered at nova. a bunch of people who lived in kibutzim around gaza were hardcore left and used to drive palestinians from gaza to treatments in israeli hospitals. they were murdered as well.

[0] https://cdn.theatlantic.com/media/archives/1961/10/208-4/132...

[9] https://www.impact-se.org/wp-content/uploads/Gazas-Education...

[1] https://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-67679634

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#22

Post by aosaigh »

cbeach wrote: post #14
ok1984 wrote: post #8

Personally it impacted me in a way that I have lost faith in humanity. Everybody talks, but no body cares, no body takes serious actions. Kids, women, elderly, whole families are being killed for almost two years and no body gives a shit. Millions of people trapped in a land and moved from north to south from south to north like animals, have you seen videos of starving people running in masses to get food from aids…

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Planned starvation of civilians is not "the unfortunate reality of losing a war".

Blocking aid is not "the unfortunate reality of losing a war".

Bombing hospitals is not "the unfortunate reality of losing a war".

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#23

Post by ok1984 »

tguvot wrote: post #21
ok1984 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think that what is happening will lead to a generation that hates their neighbours even more? If I were in charge, I would create the circumstances that prevent poverty, create work, and encourage cooperation between both nations hoping that time will heal the hate and anger that both sides accumulated over the years, this requires wisdom and patience from the political party that is smart enough to underst…

unrwa schools teach since 50s about liberation of entire palestine from jews by force[0], jihad and glorification of martyrs[9]. change of curriculum was one of main israeli demands since oslo days because it was obvious that when you teach hate in schools it's not going to end up well for anyone. not sure that "even more hate" is something that people in Israel care about now. Israel was biggest employer of palestin…

I have the feeling you look at things from one side only, making one party as good and the other as evil, there are extremist groups in Israel too as there are in Palestine, each side made atrocities to the other, each side have people that really hate the other party.

Withdrawal from Gaza is very opinionated, some say it was to give Palestinians self rule as you say, many others see it as a tactical move making it an open air prison, and that Israel itself preferred that Hamas take over Gaza.

My only hope is that on both sides there are enough people that want to live in peace and prosperity with equal rights and care for each others regardless of their roots and don’t care if you call it Israel or Palestine or whatever.

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#24

Post by tguvot »

ok1984 wrote: post #23
tguvot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unrwa schools teach since 50s about liberation of entire palestine from jews by force[0], jihad and glorification of martyrs[9]. change of curriculum was one of main israeli demands since oslo days because it was obvious that when you teach hate in schools it's not going to end up well for anyone. not sure that "even more hate" is something that people in Israel care about now. Israel was biggest employer of palestin…

I have the feeling you look at things from one side only, making one party as good and the other as evil, there are extremist groups in Israel too as there are in Palestine, each side made atrocities to the other, each side have people that really hate the other party. Withdrawal from Gaza is very opinionated, some say it was to give Palestinians self rule as you say, many others see it as a tactical move making it a…

What I was trying to present is that Israel already tried to do all those things that you talk about over last 30 years and it didn't work.

Extremist groups in Israel came to life after second intifada and started as revenge groups, that performed same type of attacks that Palestinians performed on Israeli. You can say that they were radicalized by Palestinian violence (I think in your original post you were worried about results of radicalization as result of violence, didn't you ? Somehow people forget that it can go both ways). They also don't hold a candle to hamas/pij/pflp/etc and their actions way overreported and misreported [0] while other stuff is underreported [1]

Blockade of gaza mostly started in 2007 after palestinian elections of 2006 in which hamas won both in west bank and gaza (usa pushed to have election), failed coup (sponsored by usa) of PLO against hamas that resulted in hamas (internationally recognized terrorist organization). takeover of gaza in 2007. I want to remind that Israel disengaged from Gaza in 2005 and what followed are hundreds of rockets on Israel [2]

[0] https://www.tabletmag.com/sections/israel-middle-east/articl...

[1] https://www.jns.org/over-6300-terror-attacks-against-jews-in...

[2] https://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/number-of-rocket-attack...

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#25

Post by ok1984 »

tguvot wrote: post #24
ok1984 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have the feeling you look at things from one side only, making one party as good and the other as evil, there are extremist groups in Israel too as there are in Palestine, each side made atrocities to the other, each side have people that really hate the other party. Withdrawal from Gaza is very opinionated, some say it was to give Palestinians self rule as you say, many others see it as a tactical move making it a…

What I was trying to present is that Israel already tried to do all those things that you talk about over last 30 years and it didn't work. Extremist groups in Israel came to life after second intifada and started as revenge groups, that performed same type of attacks that Palestinians performed on Israeli. You can say that they were radicalized by Palestinian violence (I think in your original post you were worried…

Extremist groups in Israel existed since 1940s (before its establishment) or even before …

And the actions of Israel in the past 30 years, and affirmations from its leaders don’t seem to be moving toward the OSLO accords, otherwise why building all those settlements in the west-bank? It just doesn’t make sense.

anyway who cares about the past I am more interested in the future:

1) In your opinion how all this crisis could be solved?

2) If you had the misfortune of being born in Gaza, and obviously you cannot leave it, what would you do?

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#26

Post by muzani »

cbeach wrote: post #18
ok1984 wrote: post #17

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Come on man, try to put yourself in others people shoes and have a bit of humanity otherwise the hate cycle will never end. I never thought that people should be killed because of an election, today almost 50% of Gaza people are And please we are in 2025 we are not in WWII anymore, if it happened to germany doesn’t justify making it happen again, we should learn from the mistakes of the past instead of repeating them…

If Gaza were rid of the Islamist terrorists that lead then then it would be better for Israel and also much better for the innocent youth of Gaza. Unfortunately there is no way for the innocent youth of Gaza to rid themselves of Hamas. In fact Hamas actively endoctrinates the youth. The only way for Gazan youth to be saved from a cycle of terrorist-led hatred is for Israel (or another developed power) to remove the t…

Survivorship bias. Every Palestinian faction that advocated for peace or a two state solution no longer exists.

What happened to them? I don't know, but their land is now claimed as a part of Israel. I don't believe they gave it up willingly. Back when people were debating genocide, one of the arguments was that there's more Palestinians than ever before. It used to be ~1 mil over the various states of Palestine, now it's ~5 mil in West Bank and Gaza, and many more all over the world.

The only ones left are the militants because everyone who tried everything else were killed or displaced.

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#27

Post by tguvot »

ok1984 wrote: post #25
tguvot wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What I was trying to present is that Israel already tried to do all those things that you talk about over last 30 years and it didn't work. Extremist groups in Israel came to life after second intifada and started as revenge groups, that performed same type of attacks that Palestinians performed on Israeli. You can say that they were radicalized by Palestinian violence (I think in your original post you were worried…

Extremist groups in Israel existed since 1940s (before its establishment) or even before … And the actions of Israel in the past 30 years, and affirmations from its leaders don’t seem to be moving toward the OSLO accords, otherwise why building all those settlements in the west-bank? It just doesn’t make sense. anyway who cares about the past I am more interested in the future: 1) In your opinion how all this crisis…

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Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#28

Post by tguvot »

muzani wrote: post #26
cbeach wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If Gaza were rid of the Islamist terrorists that lead then then it would be better for Israel and also much better for the innocent youth of Gaza. Unfortunately there is no way for the innocent youth of Gaza to rid themselves of Hamas. In fact Hamas actively endoctrinates the youth. The only way for Gazan youth to be saved from a cycle of terrorist-led hatred is for Israel (or another developed power) to remove the t…

Survivorship bias. Every Palestinian faction that advocated for peace or a two state solution no longer exists. What happened to them? I don't know, but their land is now claimed as a part of Israel. I don't believe they gave it up willingly. Back when people were debating genocide, one of the arguments was that there's more Palestinians than ever before. It used to be ~1 mil over the various states of Palestine, now…

[flagged]

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#29

Post by g8oz »

tguvot wrote: post #21
ok1984 wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Don’t you think that what is happening will lead to a generation that hates their neighbours even more? If I were in charge, I would create the circumstances that prevent poverty, create work, and encourage cooperation between both nations hoping that time will heal the hate and anger that both sides accumulated over the years, this requires wisdom and patience from the political party that is smart enough to underst…

unrwa schools teach since 50s about liberation of entire palestine from jews by force[0], jihad and glorification of martyrs[9]. change of curriculum was one of main israeli demands since oslo days because it was obvious that when you teach hate in schools it's not going to end up well for anyone. not sure that "even more hate" is something that people in Israel care about now. Israel was biggest employer of palestin…

Israel being a large employer of Palestinians is not a point in their favor. They are an exploited workforce exploited by the people who keep them locked in a Babylonian style captivity.

Also Israel never left Gaza. They had complete control over the sea air and land entry and exit points. Gaza was essentially an open-air concentration camp. They even calculated the minimum calories required so that Palestinians would not be "overfed". I'm in constant disbelief about the nonsense that Zionists tell themselves.

There's no significant Hamas presence in the West Bank and yet there Palestinians are routinely kicked out of their homes, beaten and shot by fanatical settlers as the Israeli army supervises. That is the reality of Israel. A fascist ethnostate, lawless and hyper aggressive. A Rhodesia on the Mediterranean if you will.

Re: Ask HN: Has the Gaza war affected the HN crowd?

#30

Post by tguvot »

g8oz wrote: post #29
tguvot wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

unrwa schools teach since 50s about liberation of entire palestine from jews by force[0], jihad and glorification of martyrs[9]. change of curriculum was one of main israeli demands since oslo days because it was obvious that when you teach hate in schools it's not going to end up well for anyone. not sure that "even more hate" is something that people in Israel care about now. Israel was biggest employer of palestin…

Israel being a large employer of Palestinians is not a point in their favor. They are an exploited workforce exploited by the people who keep them locked in a Babylonian style captivity. Also Israel never left Gaza. They had complete control over the sea air and land entry and exit points. Gaza was essentially an open-air concentration camp. They even calculated the minimum calories required so that Palestinians woul…

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