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US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

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Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#871

Post by drak0n1c »

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #820
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

> there were 95 books in the school library which were being questioned by some parents. Instead of removing just those books, and being accused of book banning Would those parents really have support in your community if they were named and shamed?

That mechanism usually goes the other way in these escalations - all it takes is one of the school librarians being a stubborn ideologue, not stocking classical literature (effectively censoring) and filling shelves with anti-capitalist pop lit and low-brow Tumblr graphic novels with obscene sexual depictions. It reaches the point where it's obvious to anyone walking into the library, replete with colorful signage on frontal shelves dedicated to narrow progressive fads. The kids post about it or check it out, parents notice. The librarian is named and shamed. Then, sadly, the library overall loses support in addition to the librarian.

The root cause is unfortunately lost in the ensuing battle between library-defending parents and library-critiquing parents, but the ultimate fault in this situation lies in the needless and self-destructive politicization of librarian training and the lack of standards for younger librarians. They seem to lack the common sense that loud politicking is not exactly befitting of a library, nor beneficial for their ulterior motive of gradual ideological persuasion. Another sad case of politicking and safe-space-signaling ideation being prioritized over preserving institutions and professional integrity.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#872

Post by foobarian »

SJC_Hacker wrote: post #817
OhMeadhbh wrote: post #760

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's very sad... I went to schools in Arlington that were quite good when I attended in the 70s and 80s. Our high school routinely ranked high on the academic achievement ratings (% of students going to college, average SAT score, etc.) _AND_ we routinely sent our high school football team to district and state competitions. Our soccer team was undefeated for years. I've often thought it would be a good idea to separ…

> I've often thought it would be a good idea to separate academics from athletics. Have a "school district" that runs the schools in a building next to the football field run by the "athletic district." I think both are important, but you're right, North Texas public schools have fallen quite far from the academic standards they used to hold. It’s my understanding this is what they do in much of Europe.

Are federal public schools a bad idea then? Wonder how much of this kind of thing would be unlocked without their interference. Presumably the bottom would also get a lot lower though

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#873

Post by HankStallone »

staticman2 wrote: post #134
jimt1234 wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The majority of the public school system has devolved into day-care, not education. I resisted that narrative for years, thinking it was just a media-hyped scare tactic to get clicks. However, my niece started high school a few weeks ago (in mid-August, which is weird to me); her experience blew my mind. Her new high school is considered one of the better public high schools in the area. When I asked her how it was…

Among other things an entire day on active shooter drills? Is it possible your niece was joking?

My employer has us do active shooter training once a year. It only takes a couple hours, but I'm not surprised at all that many schools would spend a whole day (or more) on it, considering the attention paid to school shootings.

(Not to mention the break from teaching/studying.)

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#874

Post by dartharva »

pavlov wrote: post #529
eunos wrote: post #522

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"acting white" Honestly this is one of the biggest bullshit I've ever heard. Assuming that this mentality is quite widespread(not necessarily universal) among non White, then any attempt to introduce affirmative action or other equalizer practice would be futile. That kind of mentality must be purged hard from yesterday.

Teenage boys everywhere have a widespread bias against putting in the effort to get good grades. They might call it "gay" or "sissy" or "acting white" or whatever, but the root cause is usually their perception of what masculinity should look like. The men they look up to are anti-intellectual. This exists in all communities, race is not the main problem here.

> This exists in all communities, race is not the main problem here.

Absolutely not, this is hilariously wrong. I invite you to find any male role models in China and India (or just outside the Western hemisphere in general, for that matter) pushing such anti-intellectualism.

The male influencers here may misguide on communal lines, but you won't find anyone looking down on studying or considering it "unmanly" in any context.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#875

Post by constantcrying »

jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

Good riddance. Libraries are totally pointless and a waste of money.

Almost every book that is available at all can be accessed within seconds on any modern digital device. You will learn how extremely valuable that is when you actually are doing research.

Students should be taught how to actually do research, not how to waste time looking things up in some small buildings which doesn't have the resources they need.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#876

Post by tracker1 »

bpt3 wrote: post #767
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

People keep talking about education cost. By and large, this isn't a cost issue. The lowest performing schools get the most funding per student, and while school boards and teacher's unions always are going to advocate for more money spent on education, spending in the US isn't low objectively or based on per-pupil averages elsewhere. The issue is who is ultimately in charge of students and who is responsible for rai…

I think it's mostly that too much is spent on administration and middle-management type roles both in public schools and higher education. They're IMO largely a less than useful drain on funding that could be better spent elsewhere. At least as far as budgeting is concerned.

I have completely separate views on how kids are being raised and educated and how things have changed just in my half century on this planet.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#877

Post by setsewerd »

kristopolous wrote: post #605
rayiner wrote: post #329

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The problem with that “culture” explanation is that white kids in America do fine in international educational comparisons. In the 2018 PISA assessment, 15 year old white american students were near the top in reading (behind only Singapore and some Chinese SEZs) and in the top echelon in science (comparable to Japan). Their weakest performance was math, where they’re around the middle, behind the top asian countries…

Wow it's almost like racism is systemic. It's pretty wild how you can show lower achievement scores for any countries definition of "black" while changing who belongs in that group. For instance, Italians were considered black in the early 1900s and wouldn't you know it, there was an achievement discrepancy for Italians so long as that definition held. Or you can look at apartheid and post apartheid South Africa - wh…

I won't get into the larger point your comment is making about power structures + definitions as I don't know enough about those histories to get into your assertions, but wanted to point out that the parent comment didn't seem to suggest these discrepancies were "biologically inert" as you were refuting (I'm also assuming you meant "inherent"). They were commenting on the a racial difference in educational outcomes. From my understanding that's largely a systemic issue, and regardless of shifting definitions/categorization, not a conversation about biology anymore.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#878

Post by etempleton »

stonemetal12 wrote: post #720
monkeyelite wrote: post #707

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> In the US there are a few obvious things, but everyone acts as if we are powerless to solve them Yes but they aren’t the things you said: 1. Schools are filled with disruptive kids who use up time and resources and are not removed. 2. Teachers have no enforcement authority so they cannot do any of what you said, including removing phones. 3. Teachers and administrators are generally not smart or capable and continu…

Is 1 even true? I can't say I have ever heard of a school that allows phones out in class. Taking them till the end of school, or making a parent come claim them is the standard punishment I have seen.

Yes. It is an issue because 1. Phones are incredibly expensive now so if something happens to it parents are pissed. 2. The high prevalence of school shootings creates a feasible reason why students and their parents want their phones on their person.

Some school districts are starting to create firmer rules around this.

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#879

Post by etempleton »

monkeyelite wrote: post #721
etempleton wrote: post #712

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Districts need to make district-wide policies and have clear action steps that happens if a student is caught with the phone out.

What are some examples of consequences they would enforce?

First offense > phone goes in a lock box for the day Second offense > in school suspension Third offense > out of school suspension

Re: US High school students' scores fall in reading and math

#880

Post by dayvid »

bpt3 wrote: post #767
jmpman wrote: post #693

My son is taking a woodworking class in high school. First week, he came home and I asked him what he was doing in his woodworking class… “Disassembling the library bookcases”. “Why???” “Because they’re getting rid of the library”. Apparently the school board decided to save money by cutting the librarian, and then decided to just move the books out of the school library and into the “nearby” public library. In reali…

People keep talking about education cost. By and large, this isn't a cost issue. The lowest performing schools get the most funding per student, and while school boards and teacher's unions always are going to advocate for more money spent on education, spending in the US isn't low objectively or based on per-pupil averages elsewhere. The issue is who is ultimately in charge of students and who is responsible for rai…

I taught in the Japanese school system for 2 years. Very low funding, but actually the opposite of your example. Teachers had a high level of respect and ability to act in the child's life.

Also almost every kid had club activities in and in class all day long. Primary goal is to drill in discipline and conformity over education to be honest.

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