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Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

nytimes.com

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Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#51

Post by mayanksinghal »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #43
001sky wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally interesting point. The experiment has to be seen as the 18 year time-frame. How many Parents can rationally expect 18 years in Job? That type of career is getting further away from the norm, it seems

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

I am curious, would it not mean that paychecks will be slightly lower in the town given that expenditures are lower? Also meaning that families and individuals who choose to be without kids will have a poorer deal hence?

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#52

Post by luu »

chii wrote: post #24
quesera wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I respect your position, and agree with parts of it. But I am bothered by the vast amounts of grant and loan money that get absorbed directly by colleges, raising the cost for everyone and creating a positive feedback loop that requires endlessly more taxes and debt to sustain. I feel we've been sold a bill of goods ("opportunity through higher ed -- don't let your kids fall behind in the new global economy, etc etc"…

I think its a balancing act - but i guess grants is worse than loans. Granting "free" money will indeed cause problems, but a loan that is required to be repaid seems like the right way to go in the long term, provided that after the higher education is completed the individual in question is able to actually provide value.

This has it exactly backwards. Consider this simple (and very simplified) example.

The NPV of college is $100k. The marginal student can scrape together $10k to go to college. The marginal cost of a student is less than $10k for the college. How much will the college charge? $10k. What's the benefit to the student? $90k.

What if an $89.9k subsidized grant is available? Now the college can charge $99.9k. What's the benefit to the student? Still $90k.

Now lets say an $89.9k loan is made available. The college can still charge $99.9k. What's the benefit to the student? $.1k. This is actually happening (though it isn't quite so extreme). The existence of loans is allowing colleges to capture more of the value of college from student.

The real world is actually worse than this simplified example in a lot of ways. Many degrees aren't worth it (from a purely monetary perspective), and the result is probabilistic, but student loans can't be discharged in bankruptcy, and payment is up front (w.r.t. a person's career), so the student takes on the risk, but the college gets the reward regardless.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#54

Post by disc »

kevinconroy wrote: post #44
ChuckMcM wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

There's one key limit on the students: they will only pay for tuition at any of Michigan's state colleges or universities. So no free rides to Harvard... or Ohio State. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that Michigan has bad schools. Simply noting that this offer requires families to set up roots in the town and it also requires that the students go to college in state. Not saying it's a positive or negative, just a two-f…

Not to be too biased (I grew up and attended school in Michigan) but I fail to see this as a significant limitation. Interested in technology? Attend Michigan's top-ten engineering school. Decent student at a less than stellar highschool? Michigan State probably has something you're interested in. Want to be a teacher? Western has you covered.

I never felt needy for options while looking at universities in the state of Michigan.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#56

Post by ChuckMcM »

kevinconroy wrote: post #44
ChuckMcM wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

There's one key limit on the students: they will only pay for tuition at any of Michigan's state colleges or universities. So no free rides to Harvard... or Ohio State. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that Michigan has bad schools. Simply noting that this offer requires families to set up roots in the town and it also requires that the students go to college in state. Not saying it's a positive or negative, just a two-f…

Hey, one my daughters is going to school in Michigan (Hope College) :-)

More seriously though, since daughter #3 is college shopping, we've been talking about various colleges. Michigan has a lot of great schools, for a variety of students and for a variety of majors. So it's not a 'limit' in any sense of the word.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#57

Post by Dylan16807 »

With every added student, the school district gets another $7,250 from the state.

That's per year, right? That's very close to the $4,200/semester number. So the college payments are almost equivalent to extending education from K12 to K16. That means that this could be done, even without donations, across the country.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#58

Post by anigbrowl »

sukuriant wrote: post #30
dhughes wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article stated > blind to family income levels, to pupils’ grades and even to disciplinary and criminal records...

That doesn't stop bureaucracy from changing that decision or for the people that are donating to be sent to jail/etc before they can finish their promises.

Put the bong down, and reread this tomorrow.It may not have occurred to you, but the norm in phalinthropy is to establish legal structures at the outset which prevent those sorts of outcomes. You appear to think the money has either been handed over as a lump sum or is being delivered on an ad-hoc basis. Neither is likely.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#59

Post by droithomme »

luu wrote: post #52
chii wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think its a balancing act - but i guess grants is worse than loans. Granting "free" money will indeed cause problems, but a loan that is required to be repaid seems like the right way to go in the long term, provided that after the higher education is completed the individual in question is able to actually provide value.

This has it exactly backwards. Consider this simple (and very simplified) example. The NPV of college is $100k. The marginal student can scrape together $10k to go to college. The marginal cost of a student is less than $10k for the college. How much will the college charge? $10k. What's the benefit to the student? $90k. What if an $89.9k subsidized grant is available? Now the college can charge $99.9k. What's the be…

Also, considering all college students nationally, a minority of student loan recipients manage to graduate from college. Yet they are required to pay back the loans whether or not they graduated. Let's assume your value is correct, the NPV per graduate is $100k. Let's take a 50% graduation rate nationally for students admitted. Let's consider the college charges $99.9k over 4 years. We also know that students are taking 4-6 years to graduate and 4 year graduations are rare. If your chance of graduating in 4-6 years is 50%, it becomes not a $.1k average pay out, but on average, weighted for actual outcomes, an overall loss.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#60

Post by sukuriant »

geoffschmidt wrote: post #50
sukuriant wrote: post #2

And now. Whatever you do. No. Whatever. You. Do. Do. NOT. Turn back on this promise. Make it happen. No ifs, ands, or buts. Period. And colleges. If somehow, something terrible happens, and the money stops coming in. Let those kids finish for free anyway. Anything less is the newest worst thing that could happen to these kids and then adults. [edit: I am curious about the downvotes. From what I gathered, the people t…

Re downvotes -- using periods like that for emphasis (in the first line of your post) is like typing your message in all caps for emphasis. It makes your argument harder to read, but it doesn't make it more persuasive. And it makes people not really want to talk with you -- you're signaling that you're not going to engage them intellectually, you're just going to get offended and shout at them if they disagree with y…

That's reasonable
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