Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

41–50 of 124 posts

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#41

Post by 001sky »

ktizo wrote: post #37
elmuchoprez wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same as any tuition program or grant: When you separate the cost from the consumer, prices skyrocket. With 100% of their tuition being paid by anonymous donors, why should these kids care how much it costs? And if the kids don't care and have a blank check, why shouldn't the schools raise the price tag? I'm just using this an example of unintended consequences in this type of stuff. I'm well aware this handful of…

When you separate the cost from the consumer, prices skyrocket. Not always. Cost of education in the UK has skyrocketed more since the scrapping of grants in favour of a loans+tuition fees model. Part of this is that when there is a marketplace based on prestige, nobody wants to appear cheap, so price becomes based on the highest price that the market will bear.

This is an iteresting and valid point. the counter example to the uk (20 years ago, in medicine and in university) is the us. In the USA both medicine and college are inflated because between the taxes collected and the end user there are [insert conspiracy theory here] actors of questionable probity. Everyone benefits from the massive opaque flow of cash. Politicans get the clout of collecting tax and the support of the [insurance, university, hospital, dentist, doctor, finance companies]. Then everybody gets "cost+pricing". To "pay their fair share." But the intermediaries skimm the pool and make extraordinary profits on the cost base hollywood accounting style. With a wink and a nod. Its a great system. =D

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#42

Post by 3am »

femto wrote: post #31

On the assumption this is a good thing, let's say every town/state rolls such a scheme out. Now every student in the nation is having their tuition paid. It's also costing about the same amount as if the government levied taxes and paid the costs. A negative, compared to government funding, is that the economy has lost mobility of labour. Getting a full scholarship requires the child to be enrolled from K-12. Loss of…

Why would you "advocate" a policy. You can look at data where it was implemented, and compare it to other data. Choose the one that has a higher NPV. Every business is run that way, and so should government. This isn't philosphy, it's management science applied to public policy.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#43

Post by ChuckMcM »

001sky wrote: post #38
kevinconroy wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Lack of mobility is a key part of the experiment here. It's an economic growth strategy - attract families that value education, get them to set up roots, and the local economy will benefit. If this were to roll out on a national level then it would be much similar to public school, but rather than K-12, it'd be K-BA. Maybe there'd be vouchers, maybe not. The point is that this is an experimental model for economic g…

This is totally interesting point. The experiment has to be seen as the 18 year time-frame. How many Parents can rationally expect 18 years in Job? That type of career is getting further away from the norm, it seems

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk.

The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will be relatively stable is an incentive.

They don't constrain where the kids go, they can go to any school that they are accepted to AFAICT from the article. So some schools might recruit them knowing they won't need financial aid.

It is a fascinating experiment in so many ways.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#44

Post by kevinconroy »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #43
001sky wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally interesting point. The experiment has to be seen as the 18 year time-frame. How many Parents can rationally expect 18 years in Job? That type of career is getting further away from the norm, it seems

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

There's one key limit on the students: they will only pay for tuition at any of Michigan's state colleges or universities.

So no free rides to Harvard... or Ohio State.

Edit: I didn't mean to imply that Michigan has bad schools. Simply noting that this offer requires families to set up roots in the town and it also requires that the students go to college in state. Not saying it's a positive or negative, just a two-fold geographic limitation designed to stimulate the local and state economies.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#45

Post by 001sky »

ChuckMcM wrote: post #43
001sky wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is totally interesting point. The experiment has to be seen as the 18 year time-frame. How many Parents can rationally expect 18 years in Job? That type of career is getting further away from the norm, it seems

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

This explains well why it might be of interest in an area where some seemingly basic jobs are all that is left from the scale-back of traditional industries. Right or wrong as the experiment will tell us, this seems to have some explanatory power. About why it might be a good idea for an increasingly large segment of folks that would otherwise be dis-advantaged by skyrocketing costs of higher ed.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#46

Post by ktizo »

001sky wrote: post #41
ktizo wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you separate the cost from the consumer, prices skyrocket. Not always. Cost of education in the UK has skyrocketed more since the scrapping of grants in favour of a loans+tuition fees model. Part of this is that when there is a marketplace based on prestige, nobody wants to appear cheap, so price becomes based on the highest price that the market will bear.

This is an iteresting and valid point. the counter example to the uk (20 years ago, in medicine and in university) is the us. In the USA both medicine and college are inflated because between the taxes collected and the end user there are [insert conspiracy theory here] actors of questionable probity. Everyone benefits from the massive opaque flow of cash. Politicans get the clout of collecting tax and the support of…

The way I think about it is this:

If there is a limited supply of a good that is highly desired by the richest in society, and if price is used as an indicator of quality for that good, then it is the connection between the cost and the consumer that drives prices upwards.

For things like speedboats and handcrafted watches and personal spaceships, this is all cool, and I don't think that randomly insanely rich people buying toys like this does much harm really on the scale of things and probably does a lot of good if anything. Power tends to follow a power law, no matter what kind of politics you try and squidge in the middle.

However, if it is then thought to cause injury to the society in general for certain goods (such as education and health services, for example) to be priced above people's general means, then the state can lower the cost of that good by regulation or by direct competition by the state. The purchasing power and drug research of the UK's NHS being a good example.

And I don't think there is any massive contradiction in being lassie-faire capitalist with most stuff and socialist with specific areas. It seems to be how places like Finland get along mostly, and they seem to be doing ok.

[edit] Just thought, private spaceships shouldn't be on that list as they follow a different set of economics, as the rich people who want them are directly funding their construction rather than purchasing a consumer good. Posh watches and big speedboats follow this rule though.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#47

Post by tokenadult »

"The Promise was created against a backdrop of recent economic thought that considers investment in education better than nearly every other kind of developmental effort when it comes to promoting economic growth."

That's the kind of thinking that turned east Asia from a place of wretched poverty to a place of wealth in my lifetime.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#48

Post by HarryHirsch »

kevinconroy wrote: post #44
ChuckMcM wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are a number of small town jobs where this can be true, even what some might consider 'temp' work like waitstaff or gardener. There are of course the 'professional' careers, like lawyer, doctor, or accountant, and of course civil jobs like police officer, firefighter, clerk. The interesting bit comes when you're thinking about investing, say to build a gas station or a wallmart, knowing that the population will…

There's one key limit on the students: they will only pay for tuition at any of Michigan's state colleges or universities. So no free rides to Harvard... or Ohio State. Edit: I didn't mean to imply that Michigan has bad schools. Simply noting that this offer requires families to set up roots in the town and it also requires that the students go to college in state. Not saying it's a positive or negative, just a two-f…

Michigan State isn't half bad. The cynic in me finds it strange to see a university with national reputation in the list.

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#49

Post by steiza »

Only now as an adult, having grown up in southwest Michigan, do I appreciate how unusual the region is.

The amount of culture and philanthropy in area is very high considering the population. In Kalamazoo there's the Kalamazoo Area Math and Science Center (thank you Upjohn family), the Gilmore Keyboard Festival (thank you Gilmore family), the philanthropic work of the Stryker family, ... the list goes on and on.

About an hour north of Kalamazoo is Grand Rapids, another major Michigan metro area, which is also defined by philanthropy: Art Prize (thank you DeVos family) and the Fredrick Meijer sculpture park (thank you Meijer family), just to name a few.

Are all towns in the United States like this?

Re: Anonymous Donor Pays for College of Every Student in Kalamazoo

#50

Post by geoffschmidt »

sukuriant wrote: post #2

And now. Whatever you do. No. Whatever. You. Do. Do. NOT. Turn back on this promise. Make it happen. No ifs, ands, or buts. Period. And colleges. If somehow, something terrible happens, and the money stops coming in. Let those kids finish for free anyway. Anything less is the newest worst thing that could happen to these kids and then adults. [edit: I am curious about the downvotes. From what I gathered, the people t…

Re downvotes -- using periods like that for emphasis (in the first line of your post) is like typing your message in all caps for emphasis. It makes your argument harder to read, but it doesn't make it more persuasive. And it makes people not really want to talk with you -- you're signaling that you're not going to engage them intellectually, you're just going to get offended and shout at them if they disagree with you.
Post reply on HN