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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#91

Post by djrobstep »

stephen_g wrote: post #4

I think the thing that really struck a chord with me about car-centric development, as someone who lives in a city with fairly poor public transport (by certain standards, it would actually be quite good if it were in the US) and where driving is the norm for getting around - Prioritising cars actually makes things worse for drivers. We spend many tens of billions of dollars a year on roads in my state and traffic in…

Cars seem to live in a special category in peoples minds where the costs simply do not exist, and thus the problems can be solved by simply throwing infinitely more resources and space at the problems.

Cars are inherently spatially inefficient, which makes them a terrible form of transport for cities. That is the hard mathematical reality that so many people avoid reckoning with.

Think of the space taken up by 1000 people on a single metro train, vs 1000 people in nearly 1000 cars. Think of 1000 people on bikes vs 1000 people in cars.

It's so obvious that this is a terrible way of moving people about, and we see this in congestion, in longer commutes in spite of cars traveling at higher speeds, sprawling patterns of urban development, road deaths (the biggest cause of death of children in most western countries), noise, pollution, sprawl, inactivity and social isolation.

Only ideology (car brain) prevents people from seeing it as the problem it is.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#92

Post by jonasdegendt »

CalRobert wrote: post #38
mettamage wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Growing up in suburban California I was basically in an outdoor prison until I could drive. Having grown up in the Netherlands and having a decision to make where we want our kids to grow up (US spouse), this feels painful to read. I suppose the SWE salaries aren't worth it. Also this is one of the best towns to cycle in the Netherlands: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r-TuGAHR78w&ab_channel=NotJu...

Agreed, last summer we contemplated moving back to CA for work but wouldn’t want that for our kids. And hello from Houten :-). If you’re here and want to talk bikes maybe we could have a coffee some time!

Hacker News bike meet when? We'll have to get jerseys! :^)

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#94

Post by xyst »

Vaslo wrote: post #62
xyst wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a shitty take. > You either transport your body fast, or you are missing out. And the greatest thing to miss out is an opportunity. This is what’s known as "fomo". Arguments driven on fear never sustainable. Also apparently you have never been stuck in bumper to bumper traffic in the aftermath of a massive event. Or maybe county closes major roadway for repairs. Or a _single_ motor vehicle accident brings an ent…

Ah yes because massive events happen everyday therefore I should need to never ever have a car and choose the way I want to travel.

Tell me you have never driven during rush hour traffic in a major US city without telling me directly…

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#95

Post by loloquwowndueo »

mytailorisrich wrote: post #63
ljf wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just did some very light googling - building out, repairing and developing new road infrastructure seems to have around 2:1 or 2.5:1 ROI - Public transport, active transport seems to have around 4:1 to 5:1 ROI.

Not sure what any of this means in relation to the comment I replied to. Keep in ming that public transport is built only on the busiest routes while roads are required (yes, actually required) everywhere. Edit to @loloquwowndueo below: I haven't been shown any data, not has my point been replied to. Please guys let's try to have a grown-up discussion.

So when shown the data you asked for, you find a way to dismiss it. Brilliant :)

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#96

Post by dijit »

npteljes wrote: post #90
yostrovs wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Train oriented people always forget that trains don't transport people from the origin to the destination. You still need to get to and from a train station. With all your groceries, gear, children's things, etc. Oh and you might be odor sensitive, but there's a lady next to you on the train that covered herself in perfume.

>there's a lady next to you on the train that covered herself in perfume. Or urine. Or they want to beat you up, or worse. I can't imagine good public transport without the "good public".

Come to Europe, especially northern Europe.

The wealthy population also take public transport, it's sort of expected that its for everyone... this seems to alter the behaviour of people in a positive way. Maybe through enhanced enforcement by police? or perhaps social conditioning through higher expectations? idk.

US Public transport is not a model of what public transport is like; it's only an example of failed infrastructure that has been intentionally sabotaged over half-a-century.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#97

Post by Cthulhu_ »

IFC_LLC wrote: post #8

It's all fine and dandy until you realize that economy pays a big buck for faster and more comfortable ways of transporting a body. (And it's been this way since time memorial). You either transport your body fast, or you are missing out. And the greatest thing to miss out is an opportunity. While programmers can live in one room for years and just use Zoom for everything, others can't. Sorry to say, but most of my E…

It's not as straightforward as that. Sure, a car gives you more freedom - if you need to go further out for stuff. But if you live in a dense city, you won't need it - your job is in walking / cycling distance, all shops are, etc.

The other factor I found is that quality and affordability of housing is inversely proportinal to access to services/public transit; that is, in the Netherlands you can live like a king in eastern Groningen for the same amount of money you buy a starter home in the Randstad, but to get to the nearest city you're looking at at least an hour's travel (by car or bus/train).

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#98

Post by noosphr »

prmoustache wrote: post #12
stephen_g wrote: post #4

I think the thing that really struck a chord with me about car-centric development, as someone who lives in a city with fairly poor public transport (by certain standards, it would actually be quite good if it were in the US) and where driving is the norm for getting around - Prioritising cars actually makes things worse for drivers. We spend many tens of billions of dollars a year on roads in my state and traffic in…

I am with you. It is not only about lanes but also parking. My in laws live in a very car centric city and it is crazy the way all distances are multiplied when everything need a dedicated parking space. There is almost nothing left at walking distance and every time I visit I have the feeling I spend all my day in a car instead of ... doing stuff.

It's pretty amazing how much time you can save by being able to park in front of whatever you want to get into. Starting at the same point I've beaten cars that should have gotten there 20 minutes faster according to google maps.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#99

Post by arethuza »

dijit wrote: post #87
yostrovs wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Train oriented people always forget that trains don't transport people from the origin to the destination. You still need to get to and from a train station. With all your groceries, gear, children's things, etc. Oh and you might be odor sensitive, but there's a lady next to you on the train that covered herself in perfume.

Yeah, that's why you build stations periodically and run trains at faster speeds than cars. I always found it infuriating to have a discussion like this with people who prefer to fly. For example, a flight from Copenhagen to Stockholm (or, Malmo to Stockholm) is about 50 minutes. But a train is four hours.. clearly the train is slower! Except the train takes you into downtown Stockholm- no express train, no getting t…

Pretty similar for me - I travel to London from Edinburgh quite a lot and I much prefer taking the train.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#100

Post by eigenspace »

whatever1 wrote: post #68

That’s cute. But if you don’t have the public transportation infrastructure & enough housing it’s totally infeasible. People who drive the cars are not the city residents. They are the ones who cannot afford living in the city and have to commute from far away.

This is a very backwards way of looking at the issue. The public transportation infrastructure and denser housing used to exist throughout north American cities, but was bulldozed to make room for comically wide roads, oversized single family houses (increasinly occupied by empty-nesters not utilizing all the now empty space), parking lots, malls, and big box stores.

Car centric design caused these problems, and moving away from car centric design is how you fix them.

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