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Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

greeneuropeanjournal.eu

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Car infrastructure also takes a lot of money and time. Remember how long it took to reconfigure the Turcot Interchange - a few years later you still (already?) have bumper to bumper traffic during rush hours there anyway. Public transport gives much better ROI for more people - you don’t need the added expense of the car to benefit from it.

> Public transport gives much better ROI for more people That's a bold claim without data.

You seem to be implying the opposite, also without data. Now THAT is a bold claim.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think it is not just car-centric. It is "private mobility"-centric. In towns, and large towns especially, public mobility should be the rule and private one the exception. If any. And maybe also for long distance mobility.

Might I suggest bikes are a great form of private mobility?

But that's not a personal pod on a pseudo-train that a tech-bro could sell me

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#44
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

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Is that a demand any group has actually made of him?

It actually was under Chirac. But you can transpose that logic to any hostage situation of your choosing.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#45

I think the thing that really struck a chord with me about car-centric development, as someone who lives in a city with fairly poor public transport (by certain standards, it would actually be quite good if it were in the US) and where driving is the norm for getting around - Prioritising cars actually makes things worse for drivers. We spend many tens of billions of dollars a year on roads in my state and traffic in…

I completely agree. You've hit on the central, infuriating paradox of car-centric cities. We're told that building more roads will bust congestion, but the exact opposite happens. It's a self-destructive cycle and a betrayal of drivers. We're sold a promise of freedom and speed, but what we get is a constant, grinding battle. We spend our lives in traffic and our wallets on fuel/tax, and the very infrastructure meant to liberate us ends up imprisoning us.

The starkest example of this for me is comparing Orlando, Florida with Malmö, Sweden. Orlando is the end game of car-centric planning. The city feels bigger than its population suggests because you spend half an hour in a car just to get anywhere. The eight-lane highways and endless parking lots are supposed to make driving easier, but they create the very congestion that makes driving miserable. This architecture of disconnection means fewer spontaneous encounters and more social isolation. The city is designed for a machine, not for people.

In contrast, Malmö's population is actually larger than Orlando's, yet a 30-minute bike ride can get you literally anywhere. The largest road through the city center is a quiet, two-lane street that prioritises people over cars; as there are large crossings and lights. This isn't an accident, it's a choice. The city's excellent public transportation and extensive bike lanes make the car a choice, not a necessity and because it's penalised: the only drivers are the ones who need to be driving, for which now there are open roads (as long as you're patient).

The truth is, every person on a bus, a train, or a bike is one less car in front of you. Giving people real alternatives is the only thing that can truly reduce traffic. This isn't an attack on cars. It's a demand for sanity, a call to build cities that work for everyone, including those who choose to drive.

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#47
post #8

It's all fine and dandy until you realize that economy pays a big buck for faster and more comfortable ways of transporting a body. (And it's been this way since time memorial). You either transport your body fast, or you are missing out. And the greatest thing to miss out is an opportunity. While programmers can live in one room for years and just use Zoom for everything, others can't. Sorry to say, but most of my E…

In any city the shortest distance in total time spent is by bike.

Even if it is widely dangerous to do so (most american cities i've ever visited)

You can hem and haw - but its pretty bang on

When you then add finding parking at the ends of your trip to it it is crazyly more efficient timewise.

Now even copenhagen denmark has rain causing many more to take a car or public transport (that works).

But it is very clear that the time argument is simply not true.

Now you can argue convenience at the start of the trip vs agony in the end (finding that parking space)

Or for "need to lug an ikea sofa across time"

Or even for "my kids and familiy needs to go as well"

That's super fine, and all true - but 70-80% of ALL trips in cars are by 1 person sitting in 1 car. So moving just 10% of car users to alternate means free up a tremendous amount of space in the city.

I love my car, my bikes and my public transports and each does something nice for me - but seriously do you think cities like l.a. are even livable on a human scale - people don't even walk if the distance is over 1000meters.

I certainly agree with the idea of "uhm lets try to plan for otherthings than cars going forward"

Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#48

Taking car transport to the extreme is bad, but the narrative that life in a small flat and commute by public transport is the future is dystopian, too. The "air pollution" argument is disappearing fast as well with the ongoing transition to EVs. What we need is a good balance. Pedestrians, bicycles, public transport, and cars.

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Re: Pontevedra, Spain declares its entire urban area a "reduced traffic zone"

#49
North Americans visiting Europe often grapple with why they enjoy European cities more than North American ones. It's often perceived as an architecture issue ("Europe has historical buildings that we don't have") but very few notice that the main difference is the urban scale and the resulting walkability. The Netherlands has plenty of modernist and even brutalist architecture yet every city there is a pretty nice place to be. This is because they know how to scale cities to human centric proportions. The layout of buildings together with the connective tissue of tram lines, bike lanes and sidewalks is what makes their cities alive and safe, not elaborate building facades (although they have some of that as well).
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