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Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

reuters.com

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Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#301

Post by ajross »

metaphor wrote: post #185
ajross wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Nah, they're still the best cars you can buy[1]. It's all down to Musk's political antics. [1] Seriously, it's hard to be lacking in innovation when other brands still don't even have walk-up unlock or 360° cameras, much less drive themselves around or launch like rockets. And the repairability thing is a meme from back when they had part production lag due to crazy scaling. Getting a Tesla fixed now (and yes, I have…

> And the repairability thing is a meme from back when they had part production lag due to crazy scaling. Respectfully, bullshit; auto insurance companies I've dealt with certainly begged to differ, and have priced comprehensive/collision premiums for Teslas accordingly.

My premiums seem fine. Also I don't see why insurance risk management has anything in particular to do with "repairability".

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#302

Post by DarmokJalad1701 »

utyop22 wrote: post #244
dghlsakjg wrote: post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not how revenue is determined. Revenue is determined by, well, revenue. You can lose market share and increase revenue if the market is growing fast enough. If you measure market share by units moved (as many markets are measured), you can raise prices and increase revenue despite lower unit sales and lost market share.

If the total sales of a market = 100 and Tesla has 20% share then it has 20 in revenue. Basic math dude. There’s such a thing as a top down vs bottom up approach.

> If the total sales of a market = 100 and Tesla has 20% share then it has 20 in revenue.

Okay. And if the total sales of a market = 1000 and Tesla has 10% share then it has 100 in revenue. That's how percentages work.

Losing market share as a percentage is expected in a growing market as new players enter.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#303

Post by senordevnyc »

gonzobonzo wrote: post #213
senordevnyc wrote: post #201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not a non-sequitur, because if the "partial control" of the robot is significant enough, it's no longer a robot.

This isn't true at all? Robots can be controlled externally, either fully or partially. ASIMO didn't stop being a robot because it was under external control for demonstrations (from what I can tell, much more external control than the Tesla robots).

I disagree, but regardless of what you call it, no one is interested in buying a super expensive remote control human analogue from Tesla.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#304

Post by tomjakubowski »

hyperadvanced wrote: post #126
SoftTalker wrote: post #95

Earlier quoted context omitted.

All cars made in the last 20 years look like that. It’s wind tunnel design, there’s only one optimal overall shape that a car can have.

I have seen this described as “looksmaxxing for cars” and I can’t unsee it now.

it's effiencymaxxing. automotive looksmaxxing peaked in the 80s, the decade when new car designs looked the best

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#306

Post by alasdair_ »

lumost wrote: post #32
cosmic_cheese wrote: post #16

Political issues aside, Tesla has a variety problem. If we converge the split between midrange and premium, their lineup consists of a midsize sedan, a midsize SUV, and a niche truck. Early on this was in their favor, but with more automakers entering the fray with serious attempts to compete, they’re going to have to add at least a couple more models to reman competitive: something in the vein of a Chevy Bolt on one…

The jump between the X and Y is too big. It’s more or less a 50-100% price increase depending on how you look at it. The Y is very small for the SUV form factor, and the X is very expensive. I have to imagine that there is a market for something between the two.

The issue is the X is still a small SUV. We have one and ended up buying a Rivian as well because it has a lot more useful space than the X.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#307

Post by kube-system »

ajross wrote: post #299
kube-system wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tesla was not first to market for keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS. In fact, they are behind. A couple of automakers are now shipping level 3 ADS systems.

> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about? Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key". And the "level 2 ADAS" business is a transparent attempt to troll an FSD argument to which won't engage except to say, again, that the user experience of letting your car drive a…

>> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS

> It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about?

Most non-luxury brands offer these features today. Toyota Camry, for instance.

> Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key".

1. You didn't say anything about doing it with a phone. 2. If you do want to do it with a phone, for whatever reason, other automakers also offer this, e.g.:

https://connected-mobility.hyundai.com/what-we-do/connected-...

https://www.ford.com/support/how-tos/fordpass/phone-as-a-key...

> And the "level 2 ADAS" business is a transparent attempt to troll an FSD argument to which won't engage except to say, again, that the user experience of letting your car drive a 200 mile leg of a long road trip is also not remotely the same as always bouncing around and stomping on brakes experience of the lanekeeping offered elsewhere.

You shouldn't be taking your hands off the wheel while using systems that require your hands to be on the wheel. Other automakers have hands-free level 2 systems. Here's the list of brands that currently offer a hand-free level 2 system: BMW, Ford, Lincoln, Buick, Cadillac, Chevrolet, GMC, Jeep, Ram, Mercedes-Benz, Nissan, Infiniti, Toyota, Lexus

> You know both of these truths, which is why you want to redefine the features to make them false.

I think maybe you're just not aware of what is on the market right now.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#308

Post by ajross »

kube-system wrote: post #307
ajross wrote: post #299

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about? Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key". And the "level 2 ADAS" business is a transparent attempt to troll an FSD argument to which won't engage except to say, again, that the user experience of letting your car drive a…

>> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS > It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about? Most non-luxury brands offer these features today. Toyota Camry, for instance. > Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key". 1. You didn't say anything about doing it with a phone . 2. If you do want to do it with a pho…

Now you're playing games with "offer". I've never once seen a Camry with cameras. I'm sure it's on a trim somewhere, but not on dealers lots or at a price people want to pay.

Look, the simple ground truth is that the experience of driving a four year old Tesla (the age of my Y) is simply better than any vehicle I'm going to find anywhere at that price point or lower (or give a bit for inflation, even).

> You shouldn't be taking your hands off the wheel while using systems that require your hands to be on the wheel.

Sigh. I said I wouldn't be trolled[1], but it's a camera-based attention monitoring system now. There's no requirement for the hand on the wheel (well, it will yell at you if it sees you duck out of the camera center and you need a physical input to acknowledge), and hasn't been for more than a year.

The "car gets new features years after purchase" thing is another point in favor, FWIW.

Look, you're just wrong on this. You'll never believe that, because you'll never drive a Tesla. But I do, and I'm right.

[1] You also played the "level 2" game again, pretending that one number defines the feature set when you know very well it does not. That now has moved from "trolling" to simple lying, I'd say.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#309

Post by tencentshill »

yalogin wrote: post #62

This is expected. Tesla enjoyed a more than a decade long position as the leader. Even now it’s a strong pick because of the extensive charging network they built. No other company comes close, and this charging network will reap recurring revenue for them. However the cars themselves are really shitty. I mean really bad for quality and do not offer any aesthetic value either, they appear very plain and generic at th…

Firing the entire supercharger team doesn't help with the increased demand.

Re: Tesla market share in US drops to lowest since 2017

#310

Post by kube-system »

ajross wrote: post #308
kube-system wrote: post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>> keyless entry, 360 cameras, nor level 2 ADAS > It's the only non-luxury brand I'm aware of with all of those features. Who are you thinking about? Most non-luxury brands offer these features today. Toyota Camry, for instance. > Also you're misdirecting: "keyless entry" isn't remotely the same as "your phone is your key". 1. You didn't say anything about doing it with a phone . 2. If you do want to do it with a pho…

Now you're playing games with "offer". I've never once seen a Camry with cameras. I'm sure it's on a trim somewhere, but not on dealers lots or at a price people want to pay. Look, the simple ground truth is that the experience of driving a four year old Tesla (the age of my Y) is simply better than any vehicle I'm going to find anywhere at that price point or lower (or give a bit for inflation, even). > You shouldn'…

> Now you're playing games with "offer". I've never once seen a Camry with cameras.

I test drove one last year, it wasn't even the highest trim... A few of my coworkers are driving used cars with 360 cameras. These aren't really new features.

> Look, the simple ground truth is that the experience of driving a four year old Tesla (the age of my Y) is simply better than any vehicle I'm going to find anywhere at that price point or lower (or give a bit for inflation, even).

Yeah, they're not bad cars. I never said they were. I said other auto makers are also shipping some of these features. I'm not attacking your vehicle; you're allowed to like it.

> Sigh. I said I wouldn't be trolled[1], but it's a camera-based attention monitoring system now. There's no requirement for the hand on the wheel (well, it will yell at you if it sees you duck out of the camera center and you need a physical input to acknowledge), and hasn't been for more than a year.

Yes, they updated their system to do this last year. A lot of auto makers have hands-free systems today, many of them already had them shipped last year, and some shipped them years before Tesla did. And while Tesla still requires you to look at the road, a couple of auto makers are shipping level three systems.

I'm not making any sort of personal attack on your purchase. I'm just here to tell you that they're not the only ones shipping these sorts of features.

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