New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care • Hacker News Board

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#271

Post by koolba » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:09 PM UTC

mothballed wrote: post #16

dzink wrote: post #12

This is fantastic! I hope they succeed and there is no abuse or other issues, because it will show how much an economy can grow when women are allowed to work to their full potential. Families who were previously in poverty because the mom would struggle to pay for childcare to work can now have assurance kids are ok while the mom can pursue jobs, start her own small business (huge chunk of businesses are small busin…

Would make sense IMO to provide an equal value waiver to those who take care of their kid rather than send them to childcare. Stay at home moms do not provide a less valuable service than childcare providers. This policy appears to disincentives children staying with their mother even when it is preferred.

I’m sure people will find creative ways to scam the system where I watch your kids and you watch mine, and both of us get paid for it.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#272

Post by Spivak » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:09 PM UTC

garciasn wrote: post #237

yardstick wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Kids are social and like playing and learning from other kids. Daycare lets them do just that. It’s a great thing and every toddler I’ve met who wasn’t in daycare was behind in something. Especially verbal skills. Plus daycare allows women to continue their career progression. It’s soo important. Not every woman wants to end their career as a mother to a young kid. Daycare enables successful women to thrive and still…

Your anecdote is just that. All of it is highly dependent on the child, their environment, and the 'educator'. Please don't make assumptions based on your limited exposure; it's not helpful.

Your "it depends" argument is that some kids aren't social, don't like playing with other kids, are better off not having exposure to social interaction with peers and practice talking.

If this is the criticism then it's a glowing endorsement of daycare and school.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#273

Post by s46dxc5r7tv8 » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

KetoManx64 wrote: post #258

dzink wrote: post #12

This is fantastic! I hope they succeed and there is no abuse or other issues, because it will show how much an economy can grow when women are allowed to work to their full potential. Families who were previously in poverty because the mom would struggle to pay for childcare to work can now have assurance kids are ok while the mom can pursue jobs, start her own small business (huge chunk of businesses are small busin…

You don't understand how economics work if you think this is actually going to be helpful. By providing "universal" child care, you just moved the cost of childcare from the individual to the tax base so now everyone has to pay an ineffifient system that often eats up 30-50% of the incoming money in bureaucratic inneficiencies before it will even reach the child care system. On top of that the increased taxes are goi…

Please post the math then, instead of wild conjecture and speculation about cause and effect.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#274

Post by vladms » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

bongoman37 wrote: post #210

mcbobgorge wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not the user you're asking but the same logic holds true for UBI, yes. The societies with the most effective social welfare programs do it via a robust and de-stigmatized social safety net. I think most of the common criticisms of UBI (it will make people lazy, its not fair, it will cause inflation etc) are silly, and I also generally support universal programs over means testing or exemptions. Still, I will be a…

Many of the Persian Gulf GCC nations essentially had a form of generous UBI since the early 80s. It has certainly made people far less enterprising and productive. Inflation hasnt happened since they import the vast majority of their requirements. It has led to increased religiosity etc since people are freed up to engage in religious activities all day long and don't necessarily have to develop skills like social co…

Many north African and middle eastern states tried to switch to democracy and that did not go as planned either, would that mean that democracy does not work?

Any policy (UBI or others) must take into account the state and potential of the country. Based on the Gulf state UBI example (if correct, I did not check) it would mean that with their initial conditions UBI will not result in developing skills (although, thinking of it, maybe their purpose of giving UBI was close to the one observed, their ruler don't strike me as very progressive).

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#275

Post by fragmede » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

outside1234 wrote: post #7

bediger4000 wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been told since at least 1980 that small, local government was best. I was given the impression that state level government was probably the optimum level to decide things, cities and counties could go off the rails in various ways. I haven't see a coherent rationale for reversing course on this doctrine, which was extremely strongly held, and cited a lot.

There are no principles here, no moral compass, only power. It is important to understand this.

oh whew! I though we'd have to out you as having any.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#276

Post by titanomachy » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:10 PM UTC

sbrother wrote: post #41

monknomo wrote: post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you could sub in universal k-12 schooling and your concern trolling points would not need to be change. I applaud the versatile argument.

+1. That being said, universal k-12 schooling works because it is publicly run. A subsidized private sector model has a lot of bad incentives and issues to work out. As an example, I've sent my kids to a private school for the past five years, and last year our state introduced a voucher program to help subsidize private education. The school responded by raising the prices by almost the amount of the voucher, just f…

Is this a for-profit school or something?

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#277

Post by jmpman » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:11 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #80

mothballed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would make sense IMO to provide an equal value waiver to those who take care of their kid rather than send them to childcare. Stay at home moms do not provide a less valuable service than childcare providers. This policy appears to disincentives children staying with their mother even when it is preferred.

> Would make sense IMO to provide an equal value waiver to those who take care of their kid rather than send them to childcare. This is a great way to kill a policy. It would technically be most fair if every parent was given the same amount of money per child, period. Then they could do what they needed or wanted with it. But doing so would not only increase the costs dramatically (by a multiple) it would give money…

I would very much be considered someone who doesn’t “need” the funding, but when deciding between having a 3rd child or just sticking with 2, I wasn’t comfortable enough to afford 3 in daycare and helping 3 through college. However, I expect my offspring to be significantly greater economic contributors to society than the average. It would have made sense for society to fund my childcare to incentivize me to populate the earth.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#278

Post by hedora » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

Glyptodon wrote: post #206

kccqzy wrote: post #10

I'm very unfamiliar with New Mexico (having only been a tourist in Albuquerque and Santa Fe for a few days), but according to U.S. News it ranks 50 out of 50 for education: https://www.usnews.com/news/best-states/rankings/education . Given some level of geographic mobility it doesn't seem like a place I would want to raise a child. Am I mistaken? Thoughts?

The thing to keep in mind about New Mexico is that there are totally fine public schools here and there - Rio Rancho maybe, Las Cruces has some maybe, maybe some random ones in a few more remote small towns, Los Alamos, etc., but the state as a whole is extremely poor and has lots of reservations and pueblos which have huge complicated histories to overcome. I will say that (and this is 20+ years out of date) coming…

Ignoring the complicated history of the rural areas, I periodically drive Route 66, Since the early 2000’s, the bit in New Mexico has basically been eaten by climate change. I can’t imagine how much damage the encroaching desert (badlands? What’s the word for a desert that’s drier and dustier than before?) has done to the local economies.

They weren’t doing well before, but it’s not been trending well.

Having said that, Albuquerque is nice. Props to the Navajo nation for helping out with early COVID vaccine testing.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#279

Post by koolba » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

Aurornis wrote: post #80

mothballed wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would make sense IMO to provide an equal value waiver to those who take care of their kid rather than send them to childcare. Stay at home moms do not provide a less valuable service than childcare providers. This policy appears to disincentives children staying with their mother even when it is preferred.

> Would make sense IMO to provide an equal value waiver to those who take care of their kid rather than send them to childcare. This is a great way to kill a policy. It would technically be most fair if every parent was given the same amount of money per child, period. Then they could do what they needed or wanted with it. But doing so would not only increase the costs dramatically (by a multiple) it would give money…

> But doing so would not only increase the costs dramatically (by a multiple) it would give money to many parents who didn’t need it for child care.

This exists. It’s called the Child Tax Credit.

If the children have any parent that is working, whether it is one or two, by definition they need more money.

Re: New Mexico is first state in US to offer universal child care

#280

Post by motorest » Tue, Sep 09, 2025, 4:12 PM UTC

giantg2 wrote: post #213

ch4s3 wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

More realistically here, there’s a limit to the funding any individual state can come up with to fund benefits. Tradeoffs have to be considered and increased workforce participation increases the tax receipts that fund these programs. It’s not much more complicated than that.

I find it dubious that adding the people who don't find it financially feasible to use childcare to cover working hours will generate tax revenue to cover this due to the low income and low tax nature. Not to mention the addition of the cost from all the current paying families.

> I find it dubious that adding the people who don't find it financially feasible to use childcare to cover working hours will generate tax revenue to cover this due to the low income and low tax nature.

You can actually think through your belief. The announcement provides a concrete number: $12,000 per child. Do you generate $12k in tax revenue? Note that this means direct and indirect tax revenue, not only from your job and what your employer earns from your work but also with your own expenses that you can cover by having a job.