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The Storm Hits the Art Market

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181–190 of 221 posts

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#181
post #178

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Someone in the space told me that China were big buyers of art but suddenly they stopped. This could be because of capital controls, financial stress or increasing sense of national pride - take your pick

Not only China and they didn't stop because of national pride (wouldn't have bought them in the first place). The reason is that they were using them as financial instruments and now they have less confidence on the West. So they are moving to other things.

> The reason is that they were using them as financial instruments and now they have less confidence on the West. So they are moving to other things.

Only partially correct. The reason why so many Chinese invested into the West is because the Chinese Government has strict monetary policies in place.

We have all seen news of people becoming miljonairs, billionaire's and then they leave for another country. The issue is that this was happening a lot in China. Rich folks made their money in China and then took the money outside the country. The issue was that they converted that money into foreign assets, what drain the national currency reserve (mostly dollars).

Like 12+ years ago the government implemented strict rules, disallowing money to be transferred out of the country, if it exceeded a specific amount. Its been a long time and i do not remember the exact limit. But there is used to be a backdoor, that if you knew the right people, and it was a company investment or other investment that build up soft power of China in the West. And voila, money flowed out that way. Of course, not for normal citizens ;)

O, you are investing a million or 5 into some painting. Well, now that money got transferred out of the country but the value (as in the painting) is now in the US, EU, ... Its the same reason why we had a TON of movies being made with Chinese backers. It was all used as a way to launder money out of China.

That means, if the Chinese government confiscated your assets at home, you had value in other countries to be tapped. Its not coincidence that a lot of rich folks their families study in the west and live in the west but the husband/family head works in China. Its a way of protection. And the West where if you leave a country, there is no real check on you leaving, China is different.

A few years ago, with Covid, China was in constant lockdowns, areas sealed off. The big cities like Shanghai, entire area's felt like prisons the moment somebody tested positive. So a lot of people with money tried even harder to get out.

It was around that time, even more stricter laws got introduced regarding "foreign investments". The whole backdoor regarding "foreign investments" has been restricted and is under much more scrutiny if you want to bring money out of China.

Hong Kong used to be a exit door but that has also been under a lot more pressure.

Its not that Chinese have less confidence in the West but that the government has "advised" that investing at home is the "better choice" for you and your family.

That means, if you do not want to be investigated and jailed. A lot of rich celebrities have been publicly investigated and jailed for short times. Charges like tax evasion was a thing. Until they paid a nice big sum to the government (with some money sticking on the edges), and a very, VERY public apology about their bad behavior. What in turn keeps the rest in place. As in, sure, you can play around but do not get too big for your bridges and think about moving money out of the country.

Getting money out of China, unless you have some connections is a hard thing. The level of control is much larger then 2010, and has only gotten worse with time.

You think about setting up a company in the West? You better be sure its registered in China (forgot the branch) or you can enjoy jail time when found out. Its all about tracking where money goes and ensuring control.

Its the same reason you see a lot of Chinese companies that used to be in China, now having head seats in Singapore etc. People using that route to get assets out.

So no, its not just about the West becoming less interesting, and people being more patriotic, its literally about way more financial and people control, what in turn affects that massive money flow from China into outside assets.

Funny thing, you ever wonder why so many, just BAD movies have been coming out the last 15 years. Check the investments and the money trail.

Its because even if the movie loses money, what then gets reported as a lost value in China, part of the money is still transferred out sideways. O, we spend 20 million on X movie (but it looks like a 2 million budget movie). O, ... i wonder what happened to those other million. We earned only 1 million from the movie sales, so we "lost" 19 million. Reality is that a lot of that money simply flowed somewhere else. 101 money laundry ..

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#182

I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. The bursting of the art market bubble in mid 2022 coincides exactly with when interest rates started rising following the 'transitory' inflation caused by pandemic relief measures. This was also the same time that we started seeing hiring freezes in tech, the bursting of the luxury watch bubble, etc. It's all tied together, and has the same root cause: It s…

> I'm amazed that the article doesn't discuss the end of ZIRP. There's a bigger culprit: NFTs. They sucked away a huge portion of art spending, with a promise of a fungible growth asset that you can just sell as needed. Art has always been considered a safe long-term investment (along with a means of conspicuous consumption), but it has always been non-liquid.

This seems dubious, because the NFT market peaked and collapsed _before_ the art market did.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#183
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no - 2022 also drastically changed taxation of software development https://www.resourcefulfinancepro.com/news/irs-section-174-c...

Tech firms lobbied this change because they care about EBITA it makes their numbers look better

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Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#185
post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes and no - 2022 also drastically changed taxation of software development https://www.resourcefulfinancepro.com/news/irs-section-174-c...

Tech firms lobbied this change because they care about EBITA it makes their numbers look better

How would that make EBITA look better? (Even if you meant EBITDA, same question)

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#186

I make an unusual kind of art, but I haven't tried selling it, as you need a stable of interested people, and I can only post it in one place at the moment (a Facebook interest group on tiling, Instagram is overrun with AI, you can't start a new profile without lots of existing supporters). I've considered opening a gallery in my local area just to sell my art (5 million people in the metro, and barely a real commerc…

Have you considered making _actual tiles_? Not sure of the feasibility of this, but some of these would make great designs for tiles.

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#187
post #14

> Another revealing indicator: Soho Art Materials, a popular art-supplies company in New York that works with artists and galleries, traces the sector’s decline to the summer of 2022. The firm’s sales began falling gradually and then in June 2023 dropped 20 percent from the previous month, according to Jonathan Siegel, a co-owner. The company was stretching 700 to 1,000 canvases annually for three years, starting in…

It's a stretch. Basically the speculators moved into NFTs, which scratched the gambling itch, and NFTs and other forms of crypto made money laundering much more straightforward. The art part of the market - in the sense of original creativity that means something to someone - had become a footnote. And large parts of it were more about performance than craft. So resale values collapsed, and now everyone is walking th…

This seems ahistorical; by the summer of 2022 the NFT market had already collapsed (it died somewhat _before_ the art market did).

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#188
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or Nazi Germany did not have a "conflict" with neighbors, some kind of quarrel that can end in a compromise. They had a desire to conquer, subdue, and consume the neighbors. There could be no resolution beside a complete capitulation and becoming annexed. Russia is currently acting in this mode. There can be no "resolution", only a devastating military defeat of one of the sides.

Empires have often grown without any desire to grow. Quite often empires have grown by moving against a threat close to its borders or trade routes and ends up in control of new areas, which then become part of its territories, which are then threatened.... Expansion is not uncontroversial either. The Roman Empire had periods of a non-expansionist policy, and the British Empire in the 19th century had a fairly popula…

The desire to grow is simply hidden behind the supposedly defensive posture of wanting to have a peaceful "buffer zone".

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have been following: https://www.instagram.com/piperbangs/ https://www.instagram.com/lauren.krasnoff/ https://www.instagram.com/artcarolinegaudreault/ https://www.instagram.com/gretchen_scherer/ https://www.instagram.com/jakeclarkjakeclark/ https://www.instagram.com/hilary_pecis/ And curating: https://www.instagram.com/carriescottcurates/ https://www.instagram.com/mary_lynn_buchanan/

Damn it sucks that instagram is the defacto second internet. My gf finds so much cool stuff on IG. Local bands post their show dates, a brewery in my neighborhood posts their hours (it’s just a husband and wife, and their hours are whenever-I-feel-like-it). I don’t have instagram, so I’m just totally in the dark on all that stuff. And I get it. Not everybody is going to make a website or blog or whatever. But it tota…

Yeah I feel this too. All of these artists have websites with the standard art format, but as RSS is dead outside our tech circle the only way to stay up to date is Instagram which all artists have, even those without a standard website. Cara is mainly illustrators, Artsy is for galleries (not artists).

Re: The Storm Hits the Art Market

#190
post #152
post #146

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Roman Empire, or Genghis Khan, or Nazi Germany did not have a "conflict" with neighbors, some kind of quarrel that can end in a compromise. They had a desire to conquer, subdue, and consume the neighbors. There could be no resolution beside a complete capitulation and becoming annexed. Russia is currently acting in this mode. There can be no "resolution", only a devastating military defeat of one of the sides.

This, so much this. Even many smart folks don't realize this, or refuse to acknowledge since its pretty bleak viewpoint with no bright future. This war won't end just because its getting annoying, or sad, or shocking whats happening. Russia switched fully to war economy, on purpose, there is no easy way back even if they wanted. Their goal is to conquer as much Europe as possible, losing few millions of its sub-citiz…

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