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Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

mistral.ai

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Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#251

Post by whimsicalism »

darkamaul wrote: post #4

I don’t really get why ASML is putting money into Mistral AI. ASML is specialized in lithography machines. Mistral, on the other hand, is yet another LLM startup. What’s the actual synergy here? The closest angle I can imagine is that AI workloads drive demand for more chips, but I believe ASML is already selling everything it can make.

truly. if a company can’t find a way to reinvest money in its core business, it should return it to stockholders (or worse case, invest it in public markets) rather than trying to become a stock picker for a different industry.

it speaks to the likely regulatory overheads in returning money to investors that they choose this route

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#252

Post by FuriouslyAdrift »

robertlagrant wrote: post #52
amelius wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most strategic move ASML can make is change its licensing structure such that Apple will have to pay 30% of their revenue for using their Fab platform.

I wonder what it would cost Apple to recreate ASML.

I can't find the article, but there was an estimate to catch up to ASML would cost between $100 - $200 Billion. You'd also be competing with ASML for a very small talent pool the whole time. See the $100 million payouts for AI researchers, for instance.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#253

Post by kergonath »

torginus wrote: post #58

This doesn't make sense to me - I mean it'd OK for Mistral to make AI chips - but ASML doesn't do that, they make photolitography equipment.

I think you got it the wrong way. The partnership is about using Mistral’s AI in ASML’s processes, not sell photolithography equipment to Mistral.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#254

Post by mystifyingpoi »

lilwobbles wrote: post #245
dakiol wrote: post #242

Mistral cannot be “the EU AI company” if they don’t change their remote work policy. A truly “EU AI company” would benefit from the talent pool of all EU, not just from a couple of cities where they happen to have offices.

[flagged]

> Maybe there's a reason EU is so far behind

I think we should use AI to fix this. Wait...

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#255

Post by manscrober »

alcinos wrote: post #250
lordofgibbons wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but we have reached the limit of AI scaling with conventional methods We've just only started RL training LLMs. So far, RL has not used more than 10-20% of the existing pre-training compute budget. There's a lot of scaling left in RL training yet.

> We've just only started RL training LLMs That's just factually wrong. Even the original chatGPT model (based on gpt3.5, released in 2022) was trained with RL (specifically RLHF).

a) 2022 is not too long ago b) this was a first important step to usable ai but not scalable. I'd say "RL training" is not the same as RLHF.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#257

Post by whimsicalism »

amelius wrote: post #42
Almondsetat wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

AI is being used more and more in chip design

LLMs too? (outside of educating new engineers)

transformer expertise has a tendency to transfer. these are curve fitting machines par exemplar and there are many curves in chip design

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#258

Post by kergonath »

Xmd5a wrote: post #151
miki123211 wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not like the model can spy on you Good luck convincing others of this. I know it's true, you know it's true, but I've met plenty of otherwise reasonable people who just wouldn't listen to any arguments, they already knew better.

https://arxiv.org/abs/2401.05566 Sleeper Agents: Training Deceptive LLMs that Persist Through Safety Training

That is completely different from the models spying on the users, which is what is discussed here.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#259

Post by const_cast »

0x008 wrote: post #93
mosselman wrote: post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be great for us! We are building an AI agent tool and the biggest questions we get from potential customers are about the privacy issue of using non-EU providers. So having an actually good EU model would be perfect for us.

All openAI models are available in the EU landing zones of Azure, run by Microsoft EU subsidiaries and in EU datacenters. Other than an irrational fear of them „phoning home“, there is no advantage here for Mistral.

> Other than an irrational fear of them „phoning home“

At what point do we just call you people hopelessly naive and move on?

Microsoft? Spying on you? Inconceivable!

The US government? Spying on you through US companies? Inconceivable!

Nevermind that we have hundreds of known examples of the US government approaching Google or microsoft and forcing their hand in wiretapping their systems. And nevermind there was once a point in time where all internet traffic in the US was wiretapped. And nevermind that Microsoft's privacy policy, which YOU SIGN, outright says they will spy on you.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#260

Post by whimsicalism »

lordofgibbons wrote: post #193
admiralrohan wrote: post #65

Everyone is so negative here but we have reached the limit of AI scaling with conventional methods. Who knows Mistral might find the next big breakthrough like DeepSeek did. We should be optimistic.

> but we have reached the limit of AI scaling with conventional methods We've just only started RL training LLMs. So far, RL has not used more than 10-20% of the existing pre-training compute budget. There's a lot of scaling left in RL training yet.

It is still an open question whether RL will (at least easily) scale the same way as pretrain or whether it is more effective at elicitation.
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