Live data from Hacker News

Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

mistral.ai

101–110 of 437 posts

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#101
post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The most strategic move ASML can make is change its licensing structure such that Apple will have to pay 30% of their revenue for using their Fab platform.

I wonder what it would cost Apple to recreate ASML.

Ask China, they've been trying for a decade.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#102
post #3

I truly do not see the USP for Mistral other than being based in EU. It's former USP of setting up their models on-premises for clients is now moot with the proliferation of open frontier models. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see a path forward for Mistral at this point, given how far they're behind and their overall lack of competitive advantages for an AI Lab like access to hardware, cheap energy or a mas…

Does ASML's investment portend a pivot to specialized, on-prem, enterprise models? No need to be the frontier general knowledge or even coding model, but instead an EU-based AI creator for things like chip design, pharma, automotive, etc?

Not even just for on-premise deployments, even for cloud settings. Google has demonstrated that you can profit very much from having your own specialized AI chips to bring down cloud costs. Maybe the EU with all the talks about giga AI factories is also planning to go in that direction instead of continuing to rely on overpriced NVIDIA chips.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#103
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be great for us! We are building an AI agent tool and the biggest questions we get from potential customers are about the privacy issue of using non-EU providers. So having an actually good EU model would be perfect for us.

All openAI models are available in the EU landing zones of Azure, run by Microsoft EU subsidiaries and in EU datacenters. Other than an irrational fear of them „phoning home“, there is no advantage here for Mistral.

It's real risk; Under oath before the French Senate, Microsoft France’s Head of Corporate, External & Legal Affairs Antoine Carniaux, said he cannot guarantee European data is safe from U.S. government access, even when stored in Europe. U.S. laws like the Patriot Act and Cloud Act require American tech firms to comply with U.S. authorities, regardless of data location. That means, especially with a current US administration acting against EU interests, that a US based AI solution is not safe.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#104
post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This would be great for us! We are building an AI agent tool and the biggest questions we get from potential customers are about the privacy issue of using non-EU providers. So having an actually good EU model would be perfect for us.

All openAI models are available in the EU landing zones of Azure, run by Microsoft EU subsidiaries and in EU datacenters. Other than an irrational fear of them „phoning home“, there is no advantage here for Mistral.

> Other than an irrational fear of them „phoning home“

There's nothing rational about believing this fear is irrational.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#105
post #9
post #3

I truly do not see the USP for Mistral other than being based in EU. It's former USP of setting up their models on-premises for clients is now moot with the proliferation of open frontier models. I'd love to be proven wrong but I don't see a path forward for Mistral at this point, given how far they're behind and their overall lack of competitive advantages for an AI Lab like access to hardware, cheap energy or a mas…

I generally share your skepticism, but didn‘t DeepSeek prove that one does not need a „competitive advantage“ in hardware? And if that does not hold for HW, it likely also doesn't hold for energy.

Probably it’s not about gaining a competitive advantage but more about bringing down the costs to run frontier models in the EU to a level where it’s a viable enough option to bring down the risk of relying on the US and china entirely.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#106
post #90

I don't get it. "The collaboration between Mistral AI and ASML aims to generate clear benefits for ASML customers through innovative products and solutions enabled by AI, and will offer potential for joint research to address future opportunities" - so the idea is that ASML customers can somehow make use of Mistral AI?

It looks like France pushed itself to Netherlands, as EU knows that ASML is one of the few strategically important companies left in EU. It had nothing to do with technology, just plain corruption

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#107
post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I generally share your skepticism, but didn‘t DeepSeek prove that one does not need a „competitive advantage“ in hardware? And if that does not hold for HW, it likely also doesn't hold for energy.

The competitive advantage of DeepSeek IMO were the engineers. Some pretty hard-core optimizations went out of their lab, and this is what I think is a major differentiator between success and failure. You can have all the HW you can wish for but if you don't have the right set of people you're not gonna make it. Many companies think that they have the right set of people but they don't.

If they do, who says they get to keep them? Hell, even if they do get to keep them, who says they're the still the right set of people in 5 years?

Mistral seems clearly sensible to keep around for some powerful and wealthy people, and I have no problem seeing why. They might not even all be Europeans.

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve built performance, enterprise utility, privacy, sovereignty, open innovation and strategic partnerships into their core story. It's quite a list. The models are opensource, Voxtral outperforms Whisper in terms of accuracy. There is no AI company like Mistral.

All sounds like classic marketing/positioning angles for an indiehacker bootstrapped saas tool. Problem is Mistral needs more than $10K MRR, and isn't going to make it by carving off a small niche when each model costs 10s of Billions to train and run. Europe has no solution to the energy problem long term unfortunately, and is actively trying to make it worse. I'm 100% certain some giant industrial companies in the…

Europe is the only one with a solution to the energy problem long term.

https://phys.org/news/2025-06-wendelstein-nuclear-fusion.htm...

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They’ve built performance, enterprise utility, privacy, sovereignty, open innovation and strategic partnerships into their core story. It's quite a list. The models are opensource, Voxtral outperforms Whisper in terms of accuracy. There is no AI company like Mistral.

All sounds like classic marketing/positioning angles for an indiehacker bootstrapped saas tool. Problem is Mistral needs more than $10K MRR, and isn't going to make it by carving off a small niche when each model costs 10s of Billions to train and run. Europe has no solution to the energy problem long term unfortunately, and is actively trying to make it worse. I'm 100% certain some giant industrial companies in the…

Europe has more nuclear than the US currently (in GW and even more by percentage of grid) and is building more currently and has more in serious planning.

From your phrasing I assume you don't believe in renewables so what energy problem solution are you referring to?

Re: Mistral raises 1.7B€, partners with ASML

#110
post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes. It's not like the model can spy on you, so if the model performs well on premise then it will be suitable irrespective of the origin.

> It's not like the model can spy on you Good luck convincing others of this. I know it's true, you know it's true, but I've met plenty of otherwise reasonable people who just wouldn't listen to any arguments, they already knew better.

It's theoretically possible that your model will work OK except for code generation for security-relevant applications it will introduce subtle pre-designed bugs. Or if used for screening CVs it will prioritize PRC agents through some keyword in hobbies. Or it could promise a bribe to an office worker when asked about some critical infastructure :)

Sending data back could be as simple as responding with embedded image urls that reference external server.

You are totally right EU commissioner, Http://chinese.imgdb.com/password/to/eu/grid/is/swordfish/funnycat.png

Possibilities are endless.

Post reply on HN