121–130 of 220 posts
Note to self... don't use Odin.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
Most language users will follow the "spirit" of the language - e.g. Bill is against package managers, people who use his language mostly agree with his ideas, and there's not a huge standard Odin package manager. I rather appreciate that C and C++ don't have a default package manager that took over - yes, integrating libraries is a bit more difficult, but we also have a lot of small, self-contained libraries that jus…
C and C++ do have package managers. It's just that these languages evolved for OS implementation and also that these package managers are old and stable so they have support for a lot of languages, so that you probably know them as OS package managers.
I see this a lot with Rust where I will depend on one or two external crates for a simple application and then I am shocked to see dozens of dependencies being pulled in when I go to build. I actually think Cargo's support for feature gates and conditional compilation could in theory be a strong mitigation against this as crates can avoid pulling in dependencies unless you actually need a feature that relies on them,…
It is an organizational not a technical problem. When I worked at Google every single dependency was strictly vendored (and not in the mostly useless way that Cargo vendors things). There was generally only one version of a dep in the mono repo, and if you wanted something.. you generally got to own maintaining it, and you had to make sure it worked for every "customer" -- the giant CI system made sure that you knew…
I feel we need more of these kinds of distros so you don't need to manage dependencies directly from upstream and deal with the integration effort yourself. What if we had a Rust disto following this same model, where there is only one version of each dep, some reasonable curation, and also you had nice clear release cycles? I feel that could real boon for the industry.
is sdl2 really that bad?
But no, for the vast majority of people, SDL2 is perfectly fine, although SDL3 is a vast improvement. It's as stable and battle-tested as a cross platform multimedia library is bound to get. Opening a window and polling input is trivial.
Then again I've never even heard of the language they're using (Odin) so maybe that doesn't play well with a C library.
Anymore, as I evaluate fellow programmers, I'm looking for whether they've discovered "one more dependency" is like signing up for "one more subscription you have to remember to pay for" and what they do to try and mitigate it.
Earlier quoted context omitted.
It is an organizational not a technical problem. When I worked at Google every single dependency was strictly vendored (and not in the mostly useless way that Cargo vendors things). There was generally only one version of a dep in the mono repo, and if you wanted something.. you generally got to own maintaining it, and you had to make sure it worked for every "customer" -- the giant CI system made sure that you knew…
In many ways traditional Linux distros operate on similar model as I imagine googles monorepo. Both aim to this "globally consistent" dependency situation where you have one version of each library and you patch up things from upstream when they don't fit. I feel we need more of these kinds of distros so you don't need to manage dependencies directly from upstream and deal with the integration effort yourself. What i…
I dunno maybe what is needed is a crates.io alternative that is highly highly moderated and highly highly selective. A subscription service with a paid staff that manages the packages and makes sure their deps are minimal, consistent with each other, secure, etc.
I can see that being a service that some corporations might pay for. I just came off a gig at a medical devices company that was using Rust and the software BoM side of things kept me up at night. The list of dependencies in the root workspace was long, and in my imagination, full of terrors.
Maybe they'll be fine, but it's not a practice I would recommend if I were starting such a project from scratch.
I see this a lot with Rust where I will depend on one or two external crates for a simple application and then I am shocked to see dozens of dependencies being pulled in when I go to build. I actually think Cargo's support for feature gates and conditional compilation could in theory be a strong mitigation against this as crates can avoid pulling in dependencies unless you actually need a feature that relies on them,…
Rust’s big issue here is the anemic standard library. I think overall the strategy makes some amount of sense; since there’s so much crazy alchemy like depending on nightly, no_std, etc in Rust, including stuff in std has more downside in Rust than in a language that’s more stable like Go. But it’s annoying to have to deal with 3 different time libraries and 3 different error creation libraries and 2 regex libraries…
I see this a lot with Rust where I will depend on one or two external crates for a simple application and then I am shocked to see dozens of dependencies being pulled in when I go to build. I actually think Cargo's support for feature gates and conditional compilation could in theory be a strong mitigation against this as crates can avoid pulling in dependencies unless you actually need a feature that relies on them,…
> If Rust didn't have Cargo to automate dependency hell, someone would create a third party script to fill the gap. Possibly but not guaranteed. Some other languages without a built in package manager haven't had an external one manage to take over the ecosystem, most (in)famously C and C++, while others have.