Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Chat Control Must Be Stopped

privacyguides.org

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

51–60 of 272 posts

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#51

Post by kypro »

dingnuts wrote: post #46
riazrizvi wrote: post #12

Some thoughts if you have them, are illegal to express, even in private, for your own consumption. This is the law that means none of our devices or possessions are protected from snooping. You have a tough challenge to convince me it’s anything other than a mundane device to give some groups an information advantage over others in their own society, for the unfair pursuit of political and economic advantage.

> Some thoughts if you have them, are illegal to express, even in private, for your own consumption. fuck this attitude with a rake

In the UK we take this a step further – if you're by an abortion clinic and the police believe you could be praying in your head for those getting an abortion they can charge you.

There are also examples where the people have been charged for retweeting opinions or sharing lyrics which are considered grossly offensive. Although I suppose in these cases you could at least argue something is being expressed.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#52

Post by HPsquared »

CGMthrowaway wrote: post #47
Humorist2290 wrote: post #10

> Chat Control would make it mandatory for all service providers (text messaging, email, social media, cloud storage, hosting services, etc.) to scan all communications and all files (including end-to-end encrypted ones), in order to supposedly detect whatever the government deems "abusive material." I wonder why there has been such silence on this, with the exception of a handful of well written blog posts. The scop…

> I wonder why there has been such silence on this Yes, I would think that if there were any real journalism left, they would be all over this. For the sake of their profession, and the protection of their sources.

Maybe it's safer not to say anything.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#54

Post by tpm »

api wrote: post #29
moffkalast wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We've been mostly deplatformed for any kind of organized action against it, there's just writing an email to your MEP or... a change.org petition. Yes really. Nothing official one could sign their name under. But even so, the commission does whatever it wants anyway, they are complete autocrats when it comes to law proposal, it's up to the parliament and the courts to something about it afterwards. And they should gi…

Would it be correct to compare the EU's autocratic pronouncements to Presidential executive orders in the US? In the sense that they can pass whatever they want with little feedback but then the courts can tear them apart?

Not at all, the Commission and the Council together can do a lot but it's important to understand both are collective bodies formed by governments of member states and can only act in some limited areas (defined very exactly by the various treaties). But then most of the important decisions have to be approved either by the directly elected Parliament or by all national parliaments (like some international agreements). And that's for legislation that doesn't have to be transposed into national law (can be applied directly), but most of the legislation has to be transposed and the member states have some leeway there.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#55

Post by [deleted] »

noduerme wrote: post #20

Questions for people who have used phones in China: How hard is it to disable the state spyware on a phone you buy there? Can you buy a phone from outside China, put in a Chinese SIM card, and do everything over a VPN? Or will they shut down your connection?

[deleted]

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#56

Post by ToValueFunfetti »

01HNNWZ0MV43FF wrote: post #40
BoredPositron wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fatigue? We are fighting this with different names since 2002. I guess normal people just can't hear about it anymore and that's probably on purpose.

It's hard to reach normal people, too. At least here in America the right wing has consolidated a lot of propaganda power into cable news like Fox

Cable everything is dead. FOX is doing relatively well, but they reach maybe 1% or 2% of the population, and presumably that's almost all already unshifting right-wing people. I'm not saying it's impossible that it's a propaganda power center, but I don't personally know how that would work. It feels like a leftover enemy from the early 2000s that just doesn't make sense post-internet.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#57

Post by zmmmmm »

Of all the arguments presented I'm surprised to see absent the one that seems most obvious to me: encryption is just math, there's no way to actually ban it. If criminals think their conversations are going to be detected they aren't going to just say "oh well let's not crime now". They are going to simply spin up their own e2e encrypted channels. The software is nearly trivial, the technical barriers are very low - it's hard to think why it won't happen.

So then what? They start outlawing encryption altogether? knowledge of math? How would you claw back all the public and freely available software that people can already use to encrypt messages to each other?

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#58

Post by jonaharagon »

BoredPositron wrote: post #36
Humorist2290 wrote: post #10

> Chat Control would make it mandatory for all service providers (text messaging, email, social media, cloud storage, hosting services, etc.) to scan all communications and all files (including end-to-end encrypted ones), in order to supposedly detect whatever the government deems "abusive material." I wonder why there has been such silence on this, with the exception of a handful of well written blog posts. The scop…

Fatigue? We are fighting this with different names since 2002. I guess normal people just can't hear about it anymore and that's probably on purpose.

Totally. This is exactly the problem with things like Chat Control in the EU and KOSA in the US. They will just introduce the same bill over and over and over again until they get the desired result.

What we need is for legislatures to pass "NO Chat Control" and "NO KOSA" bills that specifically block this behavior, but unsurprisingly governments don't seem to be too keen about limiting their own rights, only those of their citizens.

Re: Chat Control Must Be Stopped

#59

Post by somewhereoutth »

kypro wrote: post #48
api wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would it be correct to compare the EU's autocratic pronouncements to Presidential executive orders in the US? In the sense that they can pass whatever they want with little feedback but then the courts can tear them apart?

Not really. Unlike the president the EU commission are unelected and the commission is the only branch of government which can propose laws, however they can't force anything through in the same way the US president can with an executive order (it must go through parliament). I guess it's good/bad, but in different ways to the US. It's bad in the sense EU citizens can't elect the people proposing their laws, but it's…

The EU Council is the highest body in the EU (not the Parliament, especially not the Commission - who are basically the civil service or secretariat for the EU).

The EU is founded on the pooled sovereignty of the member states (unlike in the US, where the reverse is the case). The Council represents those member states (each has a seat), and so holds this pooled sovereignty.

Post reply on HN