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There is something magical about Firefox OS

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Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

JavaScript doesn't run at the speed of native, but it certainly runs fast enough on things like Fx OS (or desktop browsers) to run 'native-like' apps. It really depends what you want to do with it. For example, this is JavaScript: https://developer.mozilla.org/en-US/demos/detail/bananabread

So how come e.g. www.circuitlab.com which is a simulator written in pure JS is two orders of magnitude slower on Chrome or Firefox than native *SPICE implementations in C? It is actually even much slower than the already pretty slow Falstad's Java applet.

Two orders of magnitude? That can't be explained by the difference between C and JS. There must be some other difference, like which algorithms are used, or that the C one relies heavily on inline assembly or such.

The expected difference between C and JS should be more like one order of magnitude in the worst cases (and much better in the best).

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#182

A really minor point- why is it that the phone icon nowadays has defaulted to a handset turned to that angle, with green as the color? That looks similar to the phone icon in some of the Samsung phones that look more like iOS. Is green and at 2 o'clock simply how we think of calling someone now?

I came to post this. Seriously, why is this necessary? Are they trying to provoke a lawsuit?

I get that green is usually associated with starting a call and red ending a call, but why? Why not blue or purple or orange or yellow or black?

Good point on the angle. But why even use the same handset icon? You could use a candlestick phone, a wall phone, a rotary phone.... for fuck's sake, you could use an icon representing the phone itself.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#183
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Touchpad that dual-boots into WebOS or Android ICS. I love WebOS but I find Android to be much smoother and snappier. The memory management of Android is also much better.

Off Topic @gcb. Just curious gcb, you know you are hell banned but keep on posting - why is that? Have you tried appealing? Of course I can only see you because I keep "show dead" on.

Seems like he was hell-banned for this comment: http://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=4253243

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#184
post #81

Is there any bridge between JS and native code? Yes, I know it is hard to support development and debugging of a hybrid of script and native code, but regarding battery life and computation intensive apps, JS is not an option. Unless this OS is for really low end phones.

You seem to assume an existential difference between "native" and "not-native" that does not actually exist.

Is Objective C native? Not yet. Is the ARM executable native? Yes. Is javascript native? No. Is the executable code generated by the jit native? Yes.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#185
post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have a Touchpad that dual-boots into WebOS or Android ICS. I love WebOS but I find Android to be much smoother and snappier. The memory management of Android is also much better.

Off Topic @gcb. Just curious gcb, you know you are hell banned but keep on posting - why is that? Have you tried appealing? Of course I can only see you because I keep "show dead" on.

Hey, I'm hell banned also! I believe most people keep on posting because they don't give a crap about this stupid point system and arbitrary hell banning. I said one thing that 12 people disagreed with, so now I'm in hell. It's so stupid. It's supposed to be nothing but a circle jerk here, or what?

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#186
Firefox OS is the start of something huge. It's a revolution in waiting. A breath of fresh air. A culmination of bleeding-edge technology. It's magical and it's going to change everything.

I'm glad you didn't use any hyperbole.

it's a mobile OS powered by JavaScript!

And you thought a Java-powered operating system was crappy...

So you might be thinking, "This sounds great, but why use JavaScript to build a phone?" And you'd be right, that's a really important question to ask. The good news is that there are plenty of reasons why this is a good idea, besides making Web developers weak at the knees.

I'm pretty sure this is the only reason to do this. Nobody but web developers are going to give a shit. Grandma doesn't care what OS her iPad runs on. It just needs to work really well. I am wondering how you're going to get real-time priority on threads for the phone app over your slow HTML5 game threads if they're run by the same interpreted scripting engine.

Why the huge performance improvements over browsers in Android on identical devices? It's because of the lack of stuff going on between Gecko and the hardware, meaning things like JavaScript can run at full pelt. So much for JavaScript being slow!

What lack of stuff ? What's going on in this "JavaScript OS" that is different than in a Java OS? What calls are not happening? What memory is not being allocated? What graphics are not being displayed? What the hell are you talking about?

What Firefox OS aims to do here is to use the native everywhere-ness of the Web to provide a platform that allows applications to be enjoyed on a mobile device, a desktop computer, a tablet, or anywhere else that has access to a browser. Wouldn't you want to be able to pick up your Angry Birds game on the desktop where where you left it on your phone? I certainly would!

I think you actually missed the point of the quote right before that paragraph. It's an incredibly powerful idea to make a mobile platform that's as free-to-use as a web browser. A security nightmare, yes. A competing-open-product-that-implements-unsupported-features nightmare, yes. But it could change things, for better or worse.

Because Firefox OS is constructed using HTML, JavaScript and CSS it means you only need basic Web development skills to reach in and completely change the device experience. You could literally change one line of CSS and completely change the way the icons on the homescreen look, or re-write some core JavaScript files that handle phone-calls.

I could have sworn I heard of something like this before... Web Oh Ess or something?

Has the whole world gone nuts? What the hell was wrong with just having a web browser and native apps side by side? You could use your web apps for a universal free experience, and for apps which need a lot of performance like games you would write a fast, minimal native app. Now we're reinventing a reinvention of the wheel, poorly.

Have you people even used S60? That shit was easily skinnable, had tons of developer resources, a free marketplace (once you signed your app), it was fast, stable, cheap. Now it's dead of course (thanks Android) and all we have to fill the space is bloated incompatible buggy crap.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If it's an alternative to Android that doesn't let Carriers "add value" then it's an alternative they won't use . Open Source, in this case, becomes a race to the bottom in every respect. We need carriers to be dumb pipes we buy data plans from; then this entire class of problem goes away. Until then, any platform that doesn't let carriers charge us different amounts for bits from different places is going to die on…

>> If it's an alternative to Android that doesn't let Carriers "add value" then it's an alternative they won't use. Ideally, they shouldn't "use" any phone, because they are not the user . We should buy whatever phone we please somewhere else, with financing if necessary, and then buy service from the carriers. The whole "subsidizing" thing is a scam unless you get cheaper service by bringing your own phone, or after…

Here's the real problem: The major carriers charge the same rate regardless of whether you got a free phone from them or not. The phone subsidy doesn't go away even if you paid $500 out of pocket for a Nexus.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#188
post #56

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Web standards apps will always have to make bad compromises. We need browser byte code.

JavaScript is browser byte code. Just like Java byte code it's not that great for a lot of cases but, just like Java, eventually the JIT will get pretty decent.

I don't know. No matter how often I hear/see this, I just can't plausibly believe it. I think there are a lot of things missing to make JS a plausible Javacript.

For this reason I kinda want Dart to succeed. Why not make the browser truly polyglot if we are trying replace OS with browsers?

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#189
Yea well there is something not magical about it too which is normal users do not care what you write your apps in.

We already have 3 good options for OS, We have the cool iOS, the ios copy, android, and the alternative from microsoft.

What we have here is a glorified Android that you can write apps in js, yay, 100 bucks it will never take off.

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