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Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

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Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> "when you are on call you have a maximum of 15 minutes from being paged to being checked in to the incident. Carry your laptop everywhere you go. Why is that brutal? That's what on-call is. That's literally the point of paying someone extra for being available.

They don't pay extra.

You mean AWS doesn't pay for on-call at all? I'm sure it happens at least in some regions where it's mendatory by regulation.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't pay extra.

You mean AWS doesn't pay for on-call at all? I'm sure it happens at least in some regions where it's mendatory by regulation.

I only know second hand about some corners of AWS and Kindle where I know people, but no, they don't. Under US law, AIUI, you can be classified as exempt from overtime pay like this if you use a computer in your job (which is a weird standard leftover from decades ago when this was rare) and make more than some minimum salary, about 50k I think (changes every year). Since essentially all IT labor makes more than that, it is rare to be paid extra during oncall.

This of course means that the company is not incentivized at all to minimize oncall time by doing things like investing in cross training, or backfilling after resignations, since it's just cheaper to make your engineers be on call half of their (waking AND sleeping) lives.

This is obviously unjust and one of the reasons we need to increase our sector's union density. If you're actually interested in that and don't know where to start, I would recommend CWA's CODE training: https://code-cwa.org/upcoming-trainings

You can learn about the organizing process (which is not as mysterious and daunting as you probably think) and, more importantly, get in touch with experienced organizers who can help get you started and help an the way through the process. CWA has had a lot of successes recently, and the momentum continues to grow.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#183

Earlier quoted context omitted.

5 days a week at the office is not happening for me unless they pay mid six figures. And I live in Europe, we don't get Facebook AI team salaries here :D Currently I'm 0-2 days a week at the office, my max so far has been 4 this year.

Question- how common are fully-remote software engineer gigs in Europe? I'm considering a relocation from the US (currently fully-remote) and this will be a huge factor in my decision.

This is much less. We say of the US that remote is "tradition" over there and it was used to explain why they can and we can't.

Covid changed things but they're is still a song mentality of in office work, especially in big older companies with an older middle management.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#184

5 days a week RTO is just beyond the pale. 3 days, sure. 4 days, maybe. But 5 days in office is harsh. Top talent sees this as rude, lack of trust, unnecessary babysitting and middle managing. 3-4 days sure, good for networking, collaboration, etc. But give people 1 day a week flex at least to be trusted adults who can responsibly wfh.

No days in offices could be accepted because they are a useless waste of resources. Simply. Few days/hybrid is a gift to try bribing people in the office, not something to be accepted.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#185

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They don't pay extra.

You mean AWS doesn't pay for on-call at all? I'm sure it happens at least in some regions where it's mendatory by regulation.

Correct, on call in AWS earns no additional pay.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#186

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how i used to manage with five days in office. I am currently using myunch hour to see a doctor. A few weeks back I needed to see a plumber, and before that an electrician. Its five seconds out of the work day let them in and send them on their way but I guess we're looking at burning annual leave if I was stuck in office.

>I am currently using myunch hour to see a doctor I'm not saying you do, but people abusing the WFH flexibility are probably a big reason for RTO push. That, or the (possibly irrational) management fear that people may be abusing the WFH.

The logical fallacy is assuming being in the office means 8 full hours of work. It doesn’t. Performance should be based on output, not attendance.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#187

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have no idea how i used to manage with five days in office. I am currently using myunch hour to see a doctor. A few weeks back I needed to see a plumber, and before that an electrician. Its five seconds out of the work day let them in and send them on their way but I guess we're looking at burning annual leave if I was stuck in office.

>I am currently using myunch hour to see a doctor I'm not saying you do, but people abusing the WFH flexibility are probably a big reason for RTO push. That, or the (possibly irrational) management fear that people may be abusing the WFH.

It's only abusing if work is measured by hours spent in front of the screen. For most tech workers this is a very wrong way to measure it.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's like some people can't fathom you'd be invested in how well your team or larger organization executes unless you're a manager. Bro it's not that complicated. You hand waved ("wfh is somehow fine for small companies but breaks down for large companies") and *offer zero explanation for why that would be the case, or how that makes any sense*. For what size does it break down? What org structure? Is it 20 people?…

I think you're not doing so ok, and I hope you get better. And that's not an insult. I mean it.

I asked you to clarify your bullshit condescending handwaving and you reply with "u mad bro?", actually, an even more condescending version of it. You're exactly the piece of shit I clocked you for.

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#189
post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Any days defeats much of the purpose IMHO, which is to allow people to escape the real estate cost trap cities and actually build wealth. If a company said I had to move back to a high cost city, I’d demand like double the salary. Not like I’d be keeping any of it. They should just skip the middleman and cut checks directly to existing homeowners and property speculators. It helps on both sides too. If a bunch of dev…

The company I work for was “coerced” into forcing more people back into the office due to pressure from the city and the local chamber of commerce. I say coerce, because there are absolutely people in middle and upper management who feel the need to preside over their little fiefdoms and were more than happy to relay this info as a convenient way to deflect criticism. “Don’t blame us, the city would start making thin…

What was the pressure?

Re: Amazon RTO policy is costing it top tech talent, according to internal document

#190

My complete frustration with the RTO situation is that it is so backwards thinking. Instead of trying to enhance remote work to alleviate the negatives and enhance the positives, we just stop with "Zoom+Slack" and throw up our hands and stop innovating and trying to make better remote work.

You're absolutely right. Big corporations don't like remote work and don't want to enhance it. Tech enthusiasts is the only hope for improvement in this area. The good news is that there are innovative projects that can significantly enhance remote work. I suggest trying MeetingGlass - video meetings through virtual frosted glass. This tool can make it easier for both employer and employees meet via video on a fair terms without violating prvacy.
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