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There is something magical about Firefox OS

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Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#21

Post by robhawkes »

klausa wrote: post #12
masklinn wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This kind of happened before: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/HP_webOS Yeah, and I find the complete and utter lack of any mention of WebOS in TFA troubling. > What went wrong? Well, apparently[1] there were some big performance issues Your link points to insufficient hardware though, not software issues. Hardware which seems to have been the main recurring problem on all WebOS machines (according to reports, there we…

Well, considering that the same chipset (APQ8060) was also used in some variants of Galaxy S II, I really don't think so that Touchpad hardware was that bad. And the fact that after installing Android 4.0.4 on it, it feels like whole new machine (speed-wise) - I really blame webOS here.

Fx OS on the SGS2 runs BLAZING fast compared to the device in the video. The reason why we don't shout about that? Because we're not launching with that device and it's not right to raise expectations in that way.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#22

Post by lifeisstillgood »

I apologise for writing a long post - I have not time to write a short one

There is a reason MBAs are taught market analysis. Its important to position your product for maximum effect (usually maximum profit, but that may not be the case here)

The arguments for FirefoxOS seem to be

1. It's OSS 2. It's Web-technologies only 3. It's aimed at the "emerging" markets' mobile users 4. It runs on cheaper hardware better than the competition

1 and 2 are great. And no-one but us cares, except in 20 years when no child has even seen a line of code because OSS gets wiped out as all PCs are replaced by mobile devices.

(This is the reason I want this to succeed, and I want laptops to be certified FreeBSD compliant. It matters!)

Anyway this is about market positioning, not OSS. So.

Its a well-known truism that don't be in the middle of any market - you get squeezed from both ends.

The emerging markets have adapted enormously well to only having SMS and no smartphones (see anyone in Mumbai). That is not going to go away, so the true bottom end of the market is SMS capable devices. They will probably just give them away.

If Firefox OS says we are not as good as iOS then thay are squarely putting themselves in the middle of the market.

Aim higher folks. The world is not segmented into feature phones and smartphones. It is segmented into one market "I want to use a networked mobile app to get laid or get cash." You will never be the bottom end - that belongs to sending cash by SMS, or selling your harvest with a text.

So its the top of the market - what the cool kids have.

And so, 1 & 2 might just be our saviours. Apple made a great new product that was catnip to the coolest kids in the West. Firefox OS is geeky cool - it might just appeal to the coolest kids not in the West. And they will want to buy the 'best' phone - aim high folks.

I hope you succeed.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#23

Post by robhawkes »

j_col wrote: post #19

Giving how shockingly similar Firefox OS is to webOS (now also open source), I would have much rather that they support that OS instead of reinventing the wheel. Some strange strategic decisions coming out of Mozilla inc. these days, I would much rather see them focus on their browser instead (and Thunderbird!).

You might appreciate this piece on Fx OS and WebOS: http://www.quora.com/How-does-Mozillas-Boot-2-Gecko-compare-...

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#24

Post by robhawkes »

masklinn wrote: post #11
ngokevin wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

WebOS had a proprietary Javascript SDK or something lame. Firefox OS runs on pure HTML5 standards.

> WebOS had a proprietary Javascript SDK or something lame. WebOS was straight webkit with additional APIs for telephony and hardware access, and a bundled framework to help with laying out. Said framework having been extracted for regular in-browser JS[0] > Firefox OS runs on pure HTML5 standards. Firefox OS runs straight Gecko with additional APIs for telephony and hardware access, without a framework to help getti…

I posted further up but I'll put it here as well. You might appreciate this piece on WebOS and Fx OS from one of our engineers: http://www.quora.com/How-does-Mozillas-Boot-2-Gecko-compare-...

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#25

Post by j_col »

robhawkes wrote: post #23
j_col wrote: post #19

Giving how shockingly similar Firefox OS is to webOS (now also open source), I would have much rather that they support that OS instead of reinventing the wheel. Some strange strategic decisions coming out of Mozilla inc. these days, I would much rather see them focus on their browser instead (and Thunderbird!).

You might appreciate this piece on Fx OS and WebOS: http://www.quora.com/How-does-Mozillas-Boot-2-Gecko-compare-...

Yes I read that from your other comment, the engineer begins with:

> There are many similarities

Indeed. And he then goes on to admit that a new version of Enjo JS will address many of the perceived shortcomings in webOS:

> This is a simplification, and I should also note that Enyo 2 (the next version of the webOS application framework, not yet released) is designed to be less platform-specific and allow Enyo apps to run on both webOS and in standard web browsers: http://enyojs.com/

Enyo JS 2 is now available for download: http://enyojs.com/

So again, why reinvent the wheel? What's the real benefit of boot-to-Gecko versus boot-to-Webkit (webOS)?

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#26

Post by robhawkes »

lifeisstillgood wrote: post #22

I apologise for writing a long post - I have not time to write a short one There is a reason MBAs are taught market analysis. Its important to position your product for maximum effect (usually maximum profit, but that may not be the case here) The arguments for FirefoxOS seem to be 1. It's OSS 2. It's Web-technologies only 3. It's aimed at the "emerging" markets' mobile users 4. It runs on cheaper hardware better tha…

Thanks for the comment, I really appreciate it!

To be clear, I'm not educated in business so my thoughts are my own (potentially naive) conclusions.

However, there are some very sound business decisions behind us chosing to go with Brazil first, and to go with cheaper, low-end devices. I'm sure they know what they're doing more than I do!

As an aside, we do have versions of Fx OS running on high-end devices and it runs amazingly well. It's not our market though (for now) so it's merely a cool "look what we could do with the power" moment.

I hope we succeed too.

Re: There is something magical about Firefox OS

#30

Post by lifeisstillgood »

Mozilla seem almost apologetic about Firefox OS.

  "aiming at middle market"
  "performs well on low end hardware"
I think this is a mistake in positioning - this is still an expensive piece of hardware for most of the world (50 USD is not low-end if minimum wage in Brazil is 322 USD /mth)

Instead this has the potential to be "the best" phone in most emerging markets - the most desireable OS, because it can appeal to the very same people who iPhone appealed to - the cool and influential geeks and designers.

Shout from the rooftops guys, its high-end, high-value, cool. Let the network providers sort out how to put 50 USD worth of hardware into the hands of boys and girls in the favelas. Just make sure everyone wants one.

And that means not apologetically aiming for the middle market.

Aim higher.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_minimum_wages_by_countr...

edit: this was an edit on my other post here, but it is so different in tone it just was better reposting.

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